BATTLE OF KIEV 1943

SEOW campaign designers contributing their scenario notes, orders of battle and other useful research.
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IV/JG7_4Shades
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BATTLE OF KIEV 1943

Post by IV/JG7_4Shades »

Hi everyone,

I am considering a new campaign based on the Battle of Kiev in November 1943, where the Red Army drove the Wehrmacht out of Kiev and was counterattacked near Zhitomir and Korosten.

Here is a quick Wikipedia link of the context:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_%281943%29

If possible, I'd like to consider a detailed air-ground order of battle for both sides, then apply a suitable reduction factor to provide a properly scaled SEOW order of battle. This would likely be a ground-heavy campaign designed for low numbers of human pilots, since Kiev is a large map.

Does anyone have some good resources for respective orders of battle for both sides? I am interested in types of tanks, guns, flak, vehicles as well as all kinds of aircraft.

Cheers,
4Shades
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PA-Dore
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Post by PA-Dore »

It's not what you want, but an GOOGLE BOOK to read and perhaps THIS ONE and THIS OTHER ONE
II/JG3K.Brandle
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Post by II/JG3K.Brandle »

S!

Nice reading, Dore.

T-34's (with radios) were the bulk of Soviet tank brigades. A few Tigers, PzIV's and PzIII's manned totally understaffed German tank regiments. Rockets and arty everywhere.

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/stru ... staff1.htm

Some bits and pieces of info from Osprey:

Schlachtgruppen FW-190F-2 were based at Kirovograd well to the south of this map and Hartmann's G-6's from JG52 were based at Novo-Zaporozhe even further south east.

5 GIAP had just returned to that area in La-5FN's. 728 IAP had just painted the noses of their Yak 7B's bright red in honor of the liberation of Kiev and the 26th anniversary of the Revolution. 27 IAP might have been there in P-39's.

Everyone flew fighters.

http://www.military.com/Resources/Resou ... _map28.htm

The Germans seem to be counter attacking from the south and the location of their airbases far to the south would seem to indicate a bulge was forming with the Russians in command of the north and the Germans in the south more than a pure east west axis of attack.

Kiev or Kiev AP? What is the difference?
IV/JG7_4Shades
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Post by IV/JG7_4Shades »

Dore sent me this from the Kiev_AP mapmaker (autopilot):
Here is a readme from autopilot the map maker:

What I decided to create was a new Kiev map, both summer and winter.
using a more detailed and interesting terrain model.
By removing 253 of the 405 bridges and reworked all the water to
essentially one large river (the Dnieper River), but all the areas that
had water will still look like wet lands (using textures) but vehicles
will be able to cross them un restricted. This water change frees up a
whole new dynamic with ground vehicles for guys who like huge tank
battles and a dis-like the congestion of large convoys at bridges.
More over this lack of bridges makes for a more fluid front line.
I also added an Air field north of Koroston, in the north west corner
as well as adding some new roads and long rail lines with much fewer
choke points.
If you are a ground pounder like I am you will love this new map mod.
And with 26 airfields air 2 air combat can be enormous.

Historically Germany and her allies came in 1941 and withdrew in 1944
The Ukraine saw it all, the blitzkrieg of German might in 41 and the titanic
forces of the Red Army's drive west after the German's withdrawal from
the battle of Kursk in July 43. The final battle for Kiev started August 43
and ground to exhaustion in December 43. The Ukraine was hell all way.
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=69.GIAP=TUSHKA
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Post by =69.GIAP=TUSHKA »

Speaking of the AP_Kiev map, what do we need to do to get it?

I tried to import a blank .mis file using " MAP AP_Ukraine/load.ini" as the MAP line in HSFX4.11 full mission builder and the program just hung.

The same file with the map line "MAP Kiev/load.ini" loads just fine.

I also don't see this map listed under either Kiev or Ukraine in the FMB load map list. The two Kiev *pf* maps use different MAP lines.

Alternatively, is it possible to use the *pf* maps with SEOW? They load fine. :)
C!

Tushka

Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.

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IV/JG7_4Shades
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Post by IV/JG7_4Shades »

If there is sufficient public support, Charlie may consider working with Autopilot to add it to the next HSFX release.

Edit: Of course, you could simply change the map loader strings in Sector_Seasons table to use the pf maps for Kiev, but you might find some data consistency issues. You will be on your own there!

Cheers,
4Shades
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=69.GIAP=TUSHKA
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Post by =69.GIAP=TUSHKA »

Ah so the AP_Kiev link is a coming attractions teaser? :)

If the changes to the *pf* maps are purely cosmetic, changing the load strings should work fine. My problem is I don't follow the mods, so I don't know if there have been substantive changes in these maps like there have been in the AP_Kiev map.

I haven't spotted any differences yet, but I am called "blind Tushka" for a reason! :)

I haven't gone over them with a fine-toothed comb.
C!

Tushka

Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.

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=69.GIAP=TUSHKA
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Post by =69.GIAP=TUSHKA »

Closer inspection reveals that the *pf* maps have changed some of the airfields, so the changes are more than cosmetic.
C!

Tushka

Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.

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IV/JG7_4Shades
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Post by IV/JG7_4Shades »

IV/JG7_4Shades
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