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Introducing meta-SEOW

Discussions on transforming SEOW into a meta-gaming platform, including concepts, technical development and meta-campaigning.

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Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby IV/JG7_4Shades » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:32 pm

After a decade of development and third-party use around the world, SEOW has proven to be a solid, rich and engrossing strategic campaigning add-on for IL-2.

But we can think of the relationship between SEOW and IL-2 in a different way. SEOW is a campaign engine that produces campaign missions in IL-2 format, so that IL-2 is used to resolve the combat outcomes in each mission. Or, we can even say that SEOW is a meta-game, it is a game that uses another game (IL-2) to perform important functions.

So SEOW is a campaign meta-game that uses IL-2 to resolve combat. That works well for air-dominated combat, as we know. We also know that IL-2 is not great at resolving naval and ground combat actions. The concept behind meta-SEOW is to include additional games as combat resolvers so that players have the option to choose which game(s) to use in any different SEOW mission or campaign.

What other games would be candidates to be used in meta-SEOW? Some options are:
  • Silent Hunter (for purely naval operations)
  • Iron Front (for ground operations)

So this forum will be devoted to discussions on the meta-SEOW concept, choice of games, and how to incorporate these other games into the SEOW engine for seamless meta-campaigning.

Cheers,
4S
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby 242Sqn_Chap » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:05 pm

Badger and I worked out how to run Iron Front (install using Play with Six but playing using A2:CO's inbuilt mod enabler) yesterday.

I mounted the auto-generated seow arma map, put about 5 platoons on it, added High Command function and started ordering the formations about. Works a treat !.
(although not entirely sure how to order Infantry in trucks to get out from the High Command menu's, although I think they will automatically under certain circumstances ?.).

Really would just need two people, one in High command on each side.

note:- There is a High Command Cap of about 12 units (because you select sub-units with the F keys.)

I suspect that it is possible to have more than one set of High command hierarchies per side though...so this may not be an absolute cap. It may be possible to have several players, each with High command ability per side and upto 12 sub-Units.

edit:- tested this and it is possible to have multiple different High Command structures on a side. So Its effectively unlimited although of course each needs a separate player.
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby IV/JG7_4Shades » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:54 pm

Good to hear!

It is certainly possible to play with no human command on one side (or both), as long as the units are issued with sensible orders to start the mission.

Cheers,
4S
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby WPO_Jones » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:32 pm

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:What other games would be candidates to be used in meta-SEOW? Some options are:
  • Silent Hunter (for purely naval operations)
  • Iron Front (for ground operations)
  • Battlefront.com's Combat Mission

So this forum will be devoted to discussions on the meta-SEOW concept, choice of games, and how to incorporate these other games into the SEOW engine for seamless meta-campaigning.

Cheers,
4S

Have you played Combat Mission before? Battlefront.com attempted to do an operational meta-campaign engine previously but it never made it. They have expressed interest in anyone who is willing to take another kick at the can and the Combat Mission community has been interested in it for a long time. I think SEOW would be a great fit.

I don't have any time these days to work on this stuff, but I thought it would be something that should be brought up here in case someone feels it is something worth pursuing.

Thanks again for your tireless work on SEOW 4Shades!
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby IV/JG7_4Shades » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:22 am

Hi Jones,

We have a few dedicated CM players around here, and there would be interest in pursuing a link between SEOW and CM. However, to my knowledge, the multiplayer support in CM is not sophisticated and the file formats used are hidden which all makes it very hard to use CM in a meta-gaming sense.

For this to be a flyer we would need pro-active support from the CM developers to allow us to generate CM-style maps and missions that could be read and played in CM, and mission completion stats/data exported from CM etc.

Cheers,
4S
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby WPO_Jones » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:18 pm

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:Hi Jones,

We have a few dedicated CM players around here, and there would be interest in pursuing a link between SEOW and CM. However, to my knowledge, the multiplayer support in CM is not sophisticated and the file formats used are hidden which all makes it very hard to use CM in a meta-gaming sense.

For this to be a flyer we would need pro-active support from the CM developers to allow us to generate CM-style maps and missions that could be read and played in CM, and mission completion stats/data exported from CM etc.

Cheers,
4S

Yeah, that's the rub.

However, Battlefront might be convinced to provide official developer support for something like this. For this to move forward a project proposal would need to be put together and presented to Battlefront with some technology demos (such as what currently exists), some answers for things like licensing, and a list of things that Battlefront would be expected to provide. It wouldn't be rocket science, but it would be a fair bit of effort. I wish I had the time to contribute in that way.

I'll go float the idea over at the Battlefront forums and maybe see what comes from it.

Thanks for the response!
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby WPO_Jones » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:41 pm

I've posted on the Battlefront forum. I found one of your old posts and restarted the conversation.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/ ... er-for-cm/
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Re: Introducing meta-SEOW

Postby IV/JG7_4Shades » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:46 pm

Interesting - we will soon see if there is any response.
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