Malta Campaign
Moderator: SEOW Developers
Malta Campaign
I have started working on a Malta Campaign. I'm thinking of using the Central Mediterranean Sector and would like opinions?
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II/JG77Hawk_5
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Wed 10 Jan 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
We are still going with our old Malta campaign on the smaller Maraz Malta map and I think after all this time a larger map would have been better especially where ship movements are concerned but also allows for attacks by Axis from more locations as was the case.
Lookout for Licata AF as AI doesn't seem to like the nearby hills and many Axis planes were lost there until they transfered elswhere as the Malta (small) map is basically a cut down central med I'm sure the same problem exists there.
Having Pantellaria, Tunisia and all the extra water, I think it would be a good choice.
Lookout for Licata AF as AI doesn't seem to like the nearby hills and many Axis planes were lost there until they transfered elswhere as the Malta (small) map is basically a cut down central med I'm sure the same problem exists there.
Having Pantellaria, Tunisia and all the extra water, I think it would be a good choice.
Thanks Hawk!
I want to force the English to pickup their planes and transport them by ship. Give them an escort carrier to fly off of to protect the convoy. I was thinking that I could just place their hurricanes somewhere but not sure where or how they could be placed or how they would be loaded? I would of course supply Malta with a limited number of Gladiators
In the early stages of the campaign recon at sea would be critical but not sure what planes to fly recon with or where to start them. The database has no resupply point for air but I guess I could add some.
Interdiction of supplies going to Africa would be part of the winning conditions for the Allies so recon will remain an important goal for the English. Of course the Germans and Italians would need to stop the supplies coming to Malta and will have to continue recon flights as well. The map is a bit large to have recon flights start at an airfield so maybe I need lots of airstarts or use seaplanes for recon.
How do you feel about a simulated invasion of Malta by paratroopers and gliders? With all the sea action the ground pounder guys should be busy enough to be kept happy. If I allowed an actual invasion I think I would admin the supply of transport planes and gliders at perhaps mission 6 or 7. I think that it could however get to busy for commanders to manage both the sea campaign and an invasion.
I want to force the English to pickup their planes and transport them by ship. Give them an escort carrier to fly off of to protect the convoy. I was thinking that I could just place their hurricanes somewhere but not sure where or how they could be placed or how they would be loaded? I would of course supply Malta with a limited number of Gladiators
In the early stages of the campaign recon at sea would be critical but not sure what planes to fly recon with or where to start them. The database has no resupply point for air but I guess I could add some.
Interdiction of supplies going to Africa would be part of the winning conditions for the Allies so recon will remain an important goal for the English. Of course the Germans and Italians would need to stop the supplies coming to Malta and will have to continue recon flights as well. The map is a bit large to have recon flights start at an airfield so maybe I need lots of airstarts or use seaplanes for recon.
How do you feel about a simulated invasion of Malta by paratroopers and gliders? With all the sea action the ground pounder guys should be busy enough to be kept happy. If I allowed an actual invasion I think I would admin the supply of transport planes and gliders at perhaps mission 6 or 7. I think that it could however get to busy for commanders to manage both the sea campaign and an invasion.
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EAF331_Starfire
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Wed 31 Oct 2007 4:50 am
- Location: Denmark
- Contact:
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EAF331_Starfire
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Wed 31 Oct 2007 4:50 am
- Location: Denmark
- Contact:
About the Hurricanes.
If the Hur are flying of carriers they shouldent have any ordenance except for defalut. I very much doubt that the Hur can takeoff from a CVE (Escorte Carrier) without use of catapult. If I remember correcty they where flown of CV (normal carriers). But after takeoff they need to go for a land base. So they can only linger for a certain period.
Since SEOW are based on COOP mission which have a fixed start and end time there are the possibility of exploit. This can be prevented by have no-attack clause (in the campaign doc) after a certain time so that players can land inside the timelimit.
Such action can also be manipulated with the rules like "Planes not landed are lost". Just remember that a seow commander can use this as well. If the cost of the planes are way lower than the gain in either points or as part of a strategic goal, it might be done anyway.
If the Hur are flying of carriers they shouldent have any ordenance except for defalut. I very much doubt that the Hur can takeoff from a CVE (Escorte Carrier) without use of catapult. If I remember correcty they where flown of CV (normal carriers). But after takeoff they need to go for a land base. So they can only linger for a certain period.
Since SEOW are based on COOP mission which have a fixed start and end time there are the possibility of exploit. This can be prevented by have no-attack clause (in the campaign doc) after a certain time so that players can land inside the timelimit.
Such action can also be manipulated with the rules like "Planes not landed are lost". Just remember that a seow commander can use this as well. If the cost of the planes are way lower than the gain in either points or as part of a strategic goal, it might be done anyway.
Waiting for HSFX 6 support
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EAF331_Starfire
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Wed 31 Oct 2007 4:50 am
- Location: Denmark
- Contact:
I flew in the Med/Libyan theather during the big multi sector campaign and remember another issue.
We had axis able to air spawn at supplypoints with air-to-ground ordenance. Due to their spawnheight they where able to get to allied ships long before escort could arrive. It really killed immersion to know that they where way outside any realworld landbase.
I think this issue spawned a couple of tools from 4Shades. The SEMP are now able to control spawnheight and loadout.
This only takes away some of the problem. If more than one flight spawns from a air-supply point, the SEMP will stack them in altitude to prevent collision. So if the spawn altitude is 3000m, eash subsequent flight will spawn higher. As altitude can be exchanged for speed this can be seen as cheating.
We had axis able to air spawn at supplypoints with air-to-ground ordenance. Due to their spawnheight they where able to get to allied ships long before escort could arrive. It really killed immersion to know that they where way outside any realworld landbase.
I think this issue spawned a couple of tools from 4Shades. The SEMP are now able to control spawnheight and loadout.
This only takes away some of the problem. If more than one flight spawns from a air-supply point, the SEMP will stack them in altitude to prevent collision. So if the spawn altitude is 3000m, eash subsequent flight will spawn higher. As altitude can be exchanged for speed this can be seen as cheating.
Waiting for HSFX 6 support
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II/JG77Hawk_5
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Wed 10 Jan 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Having the new aircraft come in by sea would be good if want carrier activity but I believe the launch point in real events was well of to the west.
You could add supply points where ever you like to simulate incoming flight direction and have delays, fuel and loadout limits for when the units in them are available. So many ways to do this sector but it is a great campaigning area.
An invasion scenario is what Warg made a next step for axis in our campaign after initial objective was reached so quickly.
This is great as it make Allies need to prepare for this possibility and what was considered a real one during the war. Allies performing counter attacks on axis factories (if used) & bases are good as it can put axis on backfoot at times.
Consider the supply point locations carefully so that any non realistic situation as Starfire experienced can't happen. Then again, maybe a suprise attack flight or two from a forward airsupply point is something you may wish to simulate. If you have supply ships and/or carriers coming all the way in to Malta then the reality was very heavy losses of ships for the allies. Don't forget submarines! They were there too.
It depends on how close to real events you want to make this and the tastes of those who are going to fly the campaign but a mix of land sea and air always makes for a great campaign.
You could add supply points where ever you like to simulate incoming flight direction and have delays, fuel and loadout limits for when the units in them are available. So many ways to do this sector but it is a great campaigning area.
An invasion scenario is what Warg made a next step for axis in our campaign after initial objective was reached so quickly.
This is great as it make Allies need to prepare for this possibility and what was considered a real one during the war. Allies performing counter attacks on axis factories (if used) & bases are good as it can put axis on backfoot at times.
Consider the supply point locations carefully so that any non realistic situation as Starfire experienced can't happen. Then again, maybe a suprise attack flight or two from a forward airsupply point is something you may wish to simulate. If you have supply ships and/or carriers coming all the way in to Malta then the reality was very heavy losses of ships for the allies. Don't forget submarines! They were there too.
It depends on how close to real events you want to make this and the tastes of those who are going to fly the campaign but a mix of land sea and air always makes for a great campaign.
I only wanted the carriers because I want the campaign to be about supply. Forcing both sides to plan multiple bombers and recon flights should prevent it from becoming just another dogfight over Malta. Giving the axis the ability to attack the carriers before they launch the hurricanes appeals to me. The size of the map may not however prevent them from doing so prematurely. I think I will give the escort carriers some seafires but I don't want them to be able to transfer or use them near Malta. I would also like to accomplish these goals without a lot of administration but I'm struggling 
I will take your advise and include the Axis ability to attack Malta with ground forces. I have always wanted to see gliders in a campaign anyway.
I'll try and get with Warg on teamspeak and discuss this with him.
My philosophy is that the campaign should be complex and comprehisive enough in design that the focus of commanders in the campaign is not shifted from having fun to technical issue arrising from a poor design. The second goal is to not make it so complicated that planning become a burden. Options for strategy should feel natural without a sense of being forced by the design. Accomplishing the above by using SEOW to compensate for limitation in the game engine and the various skill levels of participants. I want to be in the entertainment, historical reenactment business not in the business of providing a platform for millitary training on software and it's limitations.
I will take your advise and include the Axis ability to attack Malta with ground forces. I have always wanted to see gliders in a campaign anyway.
I'll try and get with Warg on teamspeak and discuss this with him.
My philosophy is that the campaign should be complex and comprehisive enough in design that the focus of commanders in the campaign is not shifted from having fun to technical issue arrising from a poor design. The second goal is to not make it so complicated that planning become a burden. Options for strategy should feel natural without a sense of being forced by the design. Accomplishing the above by using SEOW to compensate for limitation in the game engine and the various skill levels of participants. I want to be in the entertainment, historical reenactment business not in the business of providing a platform for millitary training on software and it's limitations.
I found an interesting map on AAA fire coverage of Malta
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/f ... ?id=152612
The question is how does that translate into template design?
I'm not going for a historical design really. The battle for Malta does not have a desisive event to focus on. Instead I want to create the feel of Malta. So many question
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/f ... ?id=152612
The question is how does that translate into template design?
I'm not going for a historical design really. The battle for Malta does not have a desisive event to focus on. Instead I want to create the feel of Malta. So many question
I think I will use the new friendly views with only cameras at major points around Malta, bases and carriers no externals of planes or enemy. This will help supplement the Radar, and recon information for the commanders and add a bit of fun for other spectators. This could be a great feature for coops. Gentleman's agreement on comms of course
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II/JG7_Warg
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Fri 12 Jan 2007 5:31 am
G'day Zoi,
Got your message about the template. Unfortunately, I no longer have a working copy of Navicat (know I purchased it some years ago) or a functioning SEOW to check for what your asking about. Basically, I cannot read or properly identify the files used, which is essentially the refinement of the FMB Illustrious Blitz template used. I suggest you ask Hawk5 or 4Shades for a copy of it. This would be faster and much easier for you to decipher if you have a working copy of Navicat. I've also checked my other notes and found no extra addendum or campaign notes word file which I sometimes included with my templates. This means I made the changes on the fly in Navicat when I intialised and tested the template on my commuter before passing the relevant files onto 4Shades or Hawk5.
Am not too sure what timeframe you are covering in your Malta scenario. I suspect that it is 1942? Mine was the Illustrious Blitz of January, 1941, with the arrival of the Luftwaffe in the skies over Malta. In our campaign the Illustrious was sunk early and I included a theoretical early Operation Hercules to extend the campaign. Naturally, my OOB for all of this was based upon research and a little bit of conjecture. I'd suggest that you read the posts on the Illustrious Blitz in the SEOWHQ forums for a clearer idea of the rationale used in some aspects of this campaign. I think I covered the issue of reinforcements to Malta fairly extensively. Apart from this can only add that there always seems to be an abnormal amount of cloudy days when I occasionally get to fly missions in this campaign.
Hope to speak to you sometime on teamspeak.
Regards,
Warg
Got your message about the template. Unfortunately, I no longer have a working copy of Navicat (know I purchased it some years ago) or a functioning SEOW to check for what your asking about. Basically, I cannot read or properly identify the files used, which is essentially the refinement of the FMB Illustrious Blitz template used. I suggest you ask Hawk5 or 4Shades for a copy of it. This would be faster and much easier for you to decipher if you have a working copy of Navicat. I've also checked my other notes and found no extra addendum or campaign notes word file which I sometimes included with my templates. This means I made the changes on the fly in Navicat when I intialised and tested the template on my commuter before passing the relevant files onto 4Shades or Hawk5.
Am not too sure what timeframe you are covering in your Malta scenario. I suspect that it is 1942? Mine was the Illustrious Blitz of January, 1941, with the arrival of the Luftwaffe in the skies over Malta. In our campaign the Illustrious was sunk early and I included a theoretical early Operation Hercules to extend the campaign. Naturally, my OOB for all of this was based upon research and a little bit of conjecture. I'd suggest that you read the posts on the Illustrious Blitz in the SEOWHQ forums for a clearer idea of the rationale used in some aspects of this campaign. I think I covered the issue of reinforcements to Malta fairly extensively. Apart from this can only add that there always seems to be an abnormal amount of cloudy days when I occasionally get to fly missions in this campaign.
Hope to speak to you sometime on teamspeak.
Regards,
Warg
IV/JG7_Warg
Knight of the Order of the Golden Pelican
Blitz buzzard over Valletta
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Pugwash in Penang
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Knight of the Order of the Golden Pelican
Blitz buzzard over Valletta
Swiper of the Slot
Pugwash in Penang
HSFX Goodwill Ambassador
Emoticon Eliminator
OK I have split my campaign into three phases 1940, 1941, and 1942. I have the book Courage Alone The Italian Air Force 1940-1943 by Chris Dunning
I'm still at a loss how to assign Italian planes to Squads, for example we seem to have no SAS squads and it is not clear if transports assigned to individual groups changed to that designation or retained some other squad affiliation.
I'm still at a loss how to assign Italian planes to Squads, for example we seem to have no SAS squads and it is not clear if transports assigned to individual groups changed to that designation or retained some other squad affiliation.