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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 585
Location: USA
Bewegungskrieg

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"I've never won a SEOW campaign."


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 403
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:

If we want to use SEOW to set up battles/skirmishes that are resolved by using a detailed FPS, e.g. ARMA, then we can do this too. Just takes a little more work to generate ARMA maps/missions from SEOW campaigns.

Cheers,
4S


I've always thought of this as an interesting alternate way to determine the control of a control point. If during the last campaign Red or Blue wanted to declare an Assault on a control point, then the map could be constructed based on the units in a certain square kilometer range. And of course, it should be a "dead is dead" type simulation.

Interesting to see the developments on the unit firing ranges too.


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:07 am
Posts: 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Now some data for field artillery:

ZIS-3 (76.2 mm): 4000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 4000 m
PaK40 (75 mm): 3990 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 3990 m
PaK38 (50 mm): 2999 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 2999 m
M5 (75 mm): 4000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 4000 m
ML-20 (152 mm): 14000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 20000 m) .................. effective at 14000 m
sFH18 (150 mm): 13250 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 20000 m) .................. effective at 13250 m


Coastal guns:

CoastBunker_ETO2 (15") 25000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 30000 m) .................. ineffective at all ranges, shooting ~ 16% short
CoastBunker_PTO (135 mm) 10000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 30000 m) .................. ineffective at all ranges, shooting out to 200 m

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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:19 am
Posts: 567
The coastal guns figures are eye opening.


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:27 am
Posts: 413
IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:
Now some data for field artillery:

ZIS-3 (76.2 mm): 4000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 4000 m
PaK40 (75 mm): 3990 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 3990 m
PaK38 (50 mm): 2999 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 2999 m
M5 (75 mm): 4000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 15000 m) .................. effective at 4000 m
ML-20 (152 mm): 14000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 20000 m) .................. effective at 14000 m
sFH18 (150 mm): 13250 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 20000 m) .................. effective at 13250 m


Coastal guns:

CoastBunker_ETO2 (15") 25000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 30000 m) .................. ineffective at all ranges, shooting ~ 16% short
CoastBunker_PTO (135 mm) 10000 m ...... (technics AttackMaxDistance set to 30000 m) .................. ineffective at all ranges, shooting out to 200 m


I don´t know if you wonder or if you just want to make a point.
The max distances for cannons are set in by the CannonTankGeneric.class, the CannonMidrangeGeneric.class or the CannonLongrangeGeneric.class.
One of those three java classes is adressed in the individual weaponsclass code like below

Midrange Guns:
Code:
public class CannonM5_75mm extends CannonMidrangeGeneric
public class CannonPaK38 extends CannonMidrangeGeneric
public class CannonM5_75mm extends CannonMidrangeGeneric
public class CannonML20 extends CannonMidrangeGeneric
public class CannonHowitzer_150mm extends CannonMidrangeGeneric

Long range guns:
Code:
public class CannonMarkVII_356mm extends CannonLongrangeGeneric
public class CannonUS_5_38Mk12 extends CannonAntiAirGeneric


For CannonTankGeneric.class the maximum Range is 3000m:
Code:
        gunproperties.aimMaxDist = 3000F;


For CannonMidrangeGeneric.class the maximum Range is5000m:
Code:
        gunproperties.aimMaxDist = 5000F;


For CannonLongrangeGeneric.class the maximum Range is 25000m:
Code:
        gunproperties.aimMaxDist = 25000F;


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:07 am
Posts: 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Thanks Emil, I didn't know that. I don't have decompiled java for IL2.

Even so, the performance I am seeing in-game doesn't always match the parameters you identify above. This could be java errors in the particular weapons classes etc. Together we are understanding more about this!

Cheers,
4S

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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:27 am
Posts: 413
I can try to decompile the 4.12 classes for you today.


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:07 am
Posts: 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Just did some post-Korosten statistics on gun kill ranges. The following data considers only cases where a stationary object scored a "destroyed by" event during the campaign.

Object "# Kills" "Min Kill" "Ave Kill" "Max Kill" "Technics Max Dist"
ATG38_45mm 1 1451 1451 1451 1500
PaK38 2 1082 1275 1467 1630
PaK40 22 315 981 1418 1650
ZIS3 3 94 549 1378 1500
KV1 39 312 730 1063 1380
PzIIIN 9 250 414 565 880
PzIVJ 54 228 916 1549 1660
PzVA 84 428 1169 1879 1840
T34 30 462 959 1318 1386
T70M 12 607 800 1039 1200
BA_10 4 499 711 1279 1527
BA_64 2 135 205 275 535
AxisInfantry 62 27 100 254 400
RusInfantry 16 62 169 322 400


So we now know that these objects can be lethal against targets up to their technics max distance, well beyond stock ranges.

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SEOW Developer


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:07 am
Posts: 2004
Location: Perth, Western Australia
And here is some information on what stationary units killed tanks in the combined Korosten & Zhitomir scenarios, and at what ranges. Excluded are tank kills by moving objects (chiefs, aircraft). Max gun ranges were set in the Korosten Mod technics file.

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SEOW Developer


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 Post subject: Re: HSFX7 Attack Ranges
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:30 am 
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Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 9:19 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia, Canada
This is a very interesting study.
Hopefully it will lead to designers being able to manipulate these values to suit their
campaign design needs.

Sorry I didn't notice it earlier.

Kopf


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