"The Bitter End" April 1945 Holland
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Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
-
Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
continuation...
Just to let you all know I am still working on developing this campaign despite my communication stalls due to computer ineptitude.
I am polishing my Map Template , and have learned how to use the SFS extractor to open the relevant files to the NWE map - I'd like to add some place names as well as my own Actors Static File. I was able to examine the Ostfriesland template , but I would like to alter the towns concerned a bit to reflect the historical events as they pertain to the specific units in the OOB. If I can manage it, I will also alter the terrain tex files to look a bit muddy and less vibrant green.
I have continued to trim the OOBs down quite a bit.
I decided to use the 4th Canadian Armoured Division as the Allied base , plumped up with some units of II Canadian Corps , corps units.
The 4th Cdn Armoured is obviously tank heavy , and the II Corps Corps Units represent additional Artillery , Engineer and Medical Units.
This brings the base force to about 390 Pltns , SEOW wise.
If this does not provide the neccessary punch to make a campaign of it , it would be easy to incorporate elements of either or both of 1st Polish Armd Div or 2nd Cdn Inf Div which both participated historically in this region at this time ( mid April '45).
On the other side of the hill , I have reduced both the number of German units represented , and reduced the existant OOBs of those units.
This brings the German base force to about 350 Pltns.
In traditional military terms , this is not a good ratio for the attacking Allies, however it must be remembered that most Allied units have a full order of battle , and most German units do not. Further , the German units have a large number ( 102 Pltns) of "Zu Fosse" , or on foot units , and a number of Artillery and FlaK units are "Ohne Transport" or without transport. Adding in the (67 Pltns of ) noncombatant units ( HQs , Transport , spotlights , balloons etc) , the Germans will be very dependent on their few transport truck units , rail units and canal boats, not to mention horse drawn artillery. The Germans will also face a dogs breakfast of units with poor morale. The initial German setup will be vital to the success of the defence.
The biggest Allied dilemma , other than the short time available to achieve the Victory Conditions , is the scarcity of Infantry units - a historical reality for the period represented.
In terms of Airframes , the Allies have ~209 which break down into :
Fighters and Fighter Recon 52
Fighter Bombers 56
Bombers 24
Night Fighters 4
Recon 28
Transport 45
the Germans have ~152 which break down as follows :
Fighters 40
Jabos 26
Bombers 28
Nachtjaegers 6
Aufklaerung 34
Transport 18
I have also spent some time working out Rail routes : I started with Historical Route codings , and then applying a logical extrapolation for routes based on geographical positions and the Ostfriesland map , with my own labelling of the towns. I estimated time between stops given the state of the rail system in Germany , and stoppage times for loading/unloading of cargo and/or passengers.
I have currently 10 rail routes , with stops and estimated times to transit between them , so that barring Allied interdiction , the German Commander could route supplies from, for instance Bremerhaven , and know that on Route "HBHS" , a train leaving Bremerhaven (offmap supply) at 0600 would reach Oldenburg on the map 4 hours later, having stopped at Bremen en route.
The Routes and Historical Codes (most of which I just pulled off wiki) are as follows:
HCX from Cuxhaven
HE from Emden
HW from Wilhelmshaven
HWA from Wilhelmshaven
HBH from Bremerhaven
HBHS from Bremerhaven
HBHA from Bremerhaven
HHB from Hamburg
HBW from Bremerhaven
HBV from Bremen
In the camapign design as it is , the position of Eisenbahn Geschaftsfuehrer (please correct my German here) or Rail Manager , becomes key to the German Campaign plan.
The other place I would like some advice is what kind of VC to select. Currently I am leaning toward a couple of options that could end the campaign instantly if the Allies were successful in achieving them , with a secondary Point Count method should they fail to achieve the instant VC.
As always , any comments are appreciated.
Sincerely ,
Kopfdorfer
I am polishing my Map Template , and have learned how to use the SFS extractor to open the relevant files to the NWE map - I'd like to add some place names as well as my own Actors Static File. I was able to examine the Ostfriesland template , but I would like to alter the towns concerned a bit to reflect the historical events as they pertain to the specific units in the OOB. If I can manage it, I will also alter the terrain tex files to look a bit muddy and less vibrant green.
I have continued to trim the OOBs down quite a bit.
I decided to use the 4th Canadian Armoured Division as the Allied base , plumped up with some units of II Canadian Corps , corps units.
The 4th Cdn Armoured is obviously tank heavy , and the II Corps Corps Units represent additional Artillery , Engineer and Medical Units.
This brings the base force to about 390 Pltns , SEOW wise.
If this does not provide the neccessary punch to make a campaign of it , it would be easy to incorporate elements of either or both of 1st Polish Armd Div or 2nd Cdn Inf Div which both participated historically in this region at this time ( mid April '45).
On the other side of the hill , I have reduced both the number of German units represented , and reduced the existant OOBs of those units.
This brings the German base force to about 350 Pltns.
In traditional military terms , this is not a good ratio for the attacking Allies, however it must be remembered that most Allied units have a full order of battle , and most German units do not. Further , the German units have a large number ( 102 Pltns) of "Zu Fosse" , or on foot units , and a number of Artillery and FlaK units are "Ohne Transport" or without transport. Adding in the (67 Pltns of ) noncombatant units ( HQs , Transport , spotlights , balloons etc) , the Germans will be very dependent on their few transport truck units , rail units and canal boats, not to mention horse drawn artillery. The Germans will also face a dogs breakfast of units with poor morale. The initial German setup will be vital to the success of the defence.
The biggest Allied dilemma , other than the short time available to achieve the Victory Conditions , is the scarcity of Infantry units - a historical reality for the period represented.
In terms of Airframes , the Allies have ~209 which break down into :
Fighters and Fighter Recon 52
Fighter Bombers 56
Bombers 24
Night Fighters 4
Recon 28
Transport 45
the Germans have ~152 which break down as follows :
Fighters 40
Jabos 26
Bombers 28
Nachtjaegers 6
Aufklaerung 34
Transport 18
I have also spent some time working out Rail routes : I started with Historical Route codings , and then applying a logical extrapolation for routes based on geographical positions and the Ostfriesland map , with my own labelling of the towns. I estimated time between stops given the state of the rail system in Germany , and stoppage times for loading/unloading of cargo and/or passengers.
I have currently 10 rail routes , with stops and estimated times to transit between them , so that barring Allied interdiction , the German Commander could route supplies from, for instance Bremerhaven , and know that on Route "HBHS" , a train leaving Bremerhaven (offmap supply) at 0600 would reach Oldenburg on the map 4 hours later, having stopped at Bremen en route.
The Routes and Historical Codes (most of which I just pulled off wiki) are as follows:
HCX from Cuxhaven
HE from Emden
HW from Wilhelmshaven
HWA from Wilhelmshaven
HBH from Bremerhaven
HBHS from Bremerhaven
HBHA from Bremerhaven
HHB from Hamburg
HBW from Bremerhaven
HBV from Bremen
In the camapign design as it is , the position of Eisenbahn Geschaftsfuehrer (please correct my German here) or Rail Manager , becomes key to the German Campaign plan.
The other place I would like some advice is what kind of VC to select. Currently I am leaning toward a couple of options that could end the campaign instantly if the Allies were successful in achieving them , with a secondary Point Count method should they fail to achieve the instant VC.
As always , any comments are appreciated.
Sincerely ,
Kopfdorfer
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hi Kopfdorfer,
Just be aware that if you are considering editing map internals then you may unintentionally alter road/railway/bridge identification codes. If that happens then you will probably find that SEOW will generate broken road and rail waypoints etc.
In that case you will be faced with two realistic options:
1. Abandon your map edits and use the stock HSFX map.
2. Accept the map edits and re-capture all road/rail/bridge data for SEOW.
Not sure about the VC issue. I am leaning towards conditions that combine territorial gain with acceptable loss ratios. SEOW now has some neat tools to establish the size of the forces (personnel, points, supplies), so you can use those data in the VC specification if you like.
Cheers,
4S
Just be aware that if you are considering editing map internals then you may unintentionally alter road/railway/bridge identification codes. If that happens then you will probably find that SEOW will generate broken road and rail waypoints etc.
In that case you will be faced with two realistic options:
1. Abandon your map edits and use the stock HSFX map.
2. Accept the map edits and re-capture all road/rail/bridge data for SEOW.
Not sure about the VC issue. I am leaning towards conditions that combine territorial gain with acceptable loss ratios. SEOW now has some neat tools to establish the size of the forces (personnel, points, supplies), so you can use those data in the VC specification if you like.
Cheers,
4S
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
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II/JG77Hawk_5
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Wed 10 Jan 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Yes 4Shades is spot on, any changes to the static file can (and probably will) change those codes. I highly recommend you stick with an unmodified map on which the original data was captured. If needed, name changes or additions can be made to the SEOW artwork for that particular map sector in the mission planner.
Another issue that I can see is that there appears to be an assumption that all rail planning will work perfectly and trains will travel the desired route and arrive at its planned destination on time every time as seen in FMB maybe?
While you plan trains and vehicles to travel the desired routes they do not always follow the route you intended and can end up on a different line heading the wrong way or appear not to have moved at all.
A good way of putting this as someone stated so well some time back, submitting a mission plan in SEOW is basically like putting in a request for what you would like a particular unit to do but does not result in a fixed plan that will be executed to the letter. Getting units to arrive at their desired destinations continues to be an SEOW skill that even the most experienced planners struggle to achieve.
Cheers,
5
Another issue that I can see is that there appears to be an assumption that all rail planning will work perfectly and trains will travel the desired route and arrive at its planned destination on time every time as seen in FMB maybe?
While you plan trains and vehicles to travel the desired routes they do not always follow the route you intended and can end up on a different line heading the wrong way or appear not to have moved at all.
A good way of putting this as someone stated so well some time back, submitting a mission plan in SEOW is basically like putting in a request for what you would like a particular unit to do but does not result in a fixed plan that will be executed to the letter. Getting units to arrive at their desired destinations continues to be an SEOW skill that even the most experienced planners struggle to achieve.
Cheers,
5
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Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
Thanks for your replies.
To be clear , I do not intend to change any road or rail layouts , only visual textures , and to add my own Actors Static file to the map. As I understand it , functional roads , bridges and raillines are at a different "strata" in the map construction than the visual texture files.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I do not wish to bite off another mouthful I am not ready to chew by creating a need to re-enter road-rail-bridge data!
Regarding the functioning of the "Deutsche Eisenbahn " (again forgive errant German) , I did not expect for trains to arrive on schedule - indeed I am already working on an abstract means for unfolding battles, offboard air strikes , etc to affect these times both for on and offmap "scheduled" stops.
I was not aware , however that the trains might divert from their path to another route. Hmmn.
Thanks again for the info.
I remain the Teamspeak Mute...
Kopfdorfer
To be clear , I do not intend to change any road or rail layouts , only visual textures , and to add my own Actors Static file to the map. As I understand it , functional roads , bridges and raillines are at a different "strata" in the map construction than the visual texture files.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I do not wish to bite off another mouthful I am not ready to chew by creating a need to re-enter road-rail-bridge data!
Regarding the functioning of the "Deutsche Eisenbahn " (again forgive errant German) , I did not expect for trains to arrive on schedule - indeed I am already working on an abstract means for unfolding battles, offboard air strikes , etc to affect these times both for on and offmap "scheduled" stops.
I was not aware , however that the trains might divert from their path to another route. Hmmn.
Thanks again for the info.
I remain the Teamspeak Mute...
Kopfdorfer
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
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II/JG77Hawk_5
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Wed 10 Jan 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Roads and the rail lines are indeed a graphic layer but bridges are encoded into the static file with all the other objects and changes elsewhere in the static file can result in bridge code changes.
An example: In one map the summer buildings were given a winter texture to hopefully create an identical winter version static file for the map just by adding an _w to the end of the object name (I think thats how I was doing it at the time) this resulted in about 10% of the bridges both Highway, Country and Rail getting new ID numbers. Sometimes shifted by only one number, but that is all it takes to make the DB data invalid and create mission errors.
This shows that even when making seemingly minor changes and creating a seemingly almost identical static file, IL2 will interpret the static file in its unique way that will make a mess of it. All would be fine if the codes didn't matter, but they do...
An example: In one map the summer buildings were given a winter texture to hopefully create an identical winter version static file for the map just by adding an _w to the end of the object name (I think thats how I was doing it at the time) this resulted in about 10% of the bridges both Highway, Country and Rail getting new ID numbers. Sometimes shifted by only one number, but that is all it takes to make the DB data invalid and create mission errors.
This shows that even when making seemingly minor changes and creating a seemingly almost identical static file, IL2 will interpret the static file in its unique way that will make a mess of it. All would be fine if the codes didn't matter, but they do...
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Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
-
Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
I have another issue to query about , though I won't need to resolve it for a while yet.
I am accumulating a wishlist of historical skins for each aircraft type and squadron represented. While some of them do have interpretations out there, I am uncertain as to public usage of these skins as they are all from other artists. I do intend to approach the artists of the pertinent skins for permission of use. Is there anyone in this community who enjoys doing skins who might be willing to tackle a couple, or should I just pursue this on my own?
I am guessing that I require about 50 skins ultimately. While I could use default skins for many aircraft ,I feel that specific skins add a great deal of immersion , and I'd like as many works of art as I can accumulate.
Sincerely
Kopfdorfer
I am accumulating a wishlist of historical skins for each aircraft type and squadron represented. While some of them do have interpretations out there, I am uncertain as to public usage of these skins as they are all from other artists. I do intend to approach the artists of the pertinent skins for permission of use. Is there anyone in this community who enjoys doing skins who might be willing to tackle a couple, or should I just pursue this on my own?
I am guessing that I require about 50 skins ultimately. While I could use default skins for many aircraft ,I feel that specific skins add a great deal of immersion , and I'd like as many works of art as I can accumulate.
Sincerely
Kopfdorfer
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II/JG77Hawk_5
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Wed 10 Jan 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
You can still add your own buildings to a campaign. You just place them down in the template mission file an they will be there for the duration of the campaign. This can even include additional factories if you also add them to the industrial Installations table as well.
Its just the editing of the map file itself to achieve this which is a problem.
Yes you can use unique skins in your campaign. This is done quite often in numerous campaigns. This can be added as aircraft come into the map from resupply, or specified in the original template. As for seeking permission from artists that is up to you but my understanding is that they only get concerned when they are packed into another form and distributed as someone elses skin pack without credit. Check with the authors release notes on this but this shouldn't cause any problems.
Sound like you might have a sizable skin set for your campaign. If you do get this together try to get an installer set up so the user can add the skins easily.
Cheers,
5
Its just the editing of the map file itself to achieve this which is a problem.
Yes you can use unique skins in your campaign. This is done quite often in numerous campaigns. This can be added as aircraft come into the map from resupply, or specified in the original template. As for seeking permission from artists that is up to you but my understanding is that they only get concerned when they are packed into another form and distributed as someone elses skin pack without credit. Check with the authors release notes on this but this shouldn't cause any problems.
Sound like you might have a sizable skin set for your campaign. If you do get this together try to get an installer set up so the user can add the skins easily.
Cheers,
5