April 11 , 1945
The war in Northwest Europe is won , but it is not over.
The fighting and dying continues for soldiers and civilians alike.
The Allies have an incontrovertible superiority in numbers of men , equipment and supply.
...but as the war crosses the border into Germany itself , the Nazi hierarchy warns that the dishonour of surrender may be taken out on a soldier's loved ones at home ; Germans are fighting for their own towns and cities now, and the shadow of unconditional surrender looms over the detritus of the Reich with uncertain consequences...
...the Empire of Great Britain is firmly on a downslide. What ever doubts of this existed after the Great War are dissipated by the dependence on the assistance of Allies which include old enemies , uneasy Allies born of necessity , adolescent Commonwealth nations with future aspirations of their own. In the arena of WW2 , these nations have once again stepped forward to support the mother country and the crown , but this time at the hard bought price of independent self-determination...
...the manpower crisis of late 1944 and 1945 has worn thin the fighting forces of all nations , but none so drastically as Germany and the Commonwealth of Great Britain. This has forced a preponderant dependence on a war of numbers in equipment , and bombing campaigns aimed for the first time at the citizens of the enemy...
...Germany has reached the bottom of the manpower barrel. Units on paper are fragments of their former selves and almost never constitute a complete order of battle. In addition , military trainees, cadets and students of all types are being thrown into the lines with second rate equipment. Neither German nor Allied Commanders can be sure prior to an engagement whether the German troops engaged will flee , surrender or fight to the death like a cornered beast...
This is "The Bitter End 1945".
Can you as part of the II Canadian Corps take the area of the Ems and Leda River from Germans fighting for and on their own ground ?
Can you as part of the RAFs 2nd Tactical Airforce finally eliminate the Luftwaffe which now , defending a much smaller geographical area with highly advanced aircraft and secret weapons , can bring more and better pilots and aircraft to bear in the skies over the Fatherland?
Can you as one of the remnants of German units which have survived the Battle of the Scheldt , the Ardennes and the bloody and muddy battles for the Rheinland now prolong the inevitable war's end and earn an honourable and perhaps a negotiated peace ? Can you as a member of the Luftwaffe still fly and fight with honour though most of the Wehrmacht , the Kriegsmarine and the Waffens SS has chastised your diminished performance over the last 2 years?
This campaign is being designed to occur in the short span of 3 days (April 12-13-14 1945) in Ostfriesland on the border of the Netherlands and Germany.
The campaign will be 11 Missions long, 9 Day and 2 Night
D1,D2,D3,N4,D5,D6,D7,N8,D9,D10,D11
The Missions will be 60-75 minutes in duration.
The current plan is to have the following number of airframes flyable :
Allies 12 Piloted , 6 AI
Germans 8 Piloted , 6 AI
My intention is to manage this campaign as a "partly blind" campaign.
What I mean by this is that while the opponent sides will have "an idea" of the enemy opposing them (OOB) - through briefings initially , and their own reconnaissance during the campaign , there will be the "possibility" of certain reinforcement groups which will vary in time of appearance and points of arrival based on reinforcement requests made by commanders , and some random possibilities made by a draw of cards (from a normal deck) managed by the neutral campaign administrator. Further , the complete after action report generated by SEOW showing exactly who lost what units will NOT be available to the commanders/players. They will be apprised only of their own losses and positions. This will encourage a more comprehensive debriefing after each mission by each side, as this will be the primary source of combat assessment.
This is meant to provide campaigners with a more realistic and less "gamey" environment , where statisticians can assess with an unrealistic accuracy the results of combat.
It is my belief that management of the campaign in this manner , if successful , will not only raise the drama and tension of each sortie , engagement , and mission , but will cause very different command behaviour from even seasoned SEOW campaigners.
To get an idea of the OOBs involved , please consult my thread in the Campaign Development forum.
What I need from you guys out there is the following :
1) Would you be interested in participating in this type of campaign?
2) Can you think of other parameters that I might adopt to make this a successful exercise? - bear i mind here that I am a neophyte to SEOW , though I have some experience designing campaigns in other game systems - I am not a computer literate fellow , though.
3) Would you be interested if I introduced a level of detail that specified ordinance stores and resupply by weapon type ( ie how many of which bombs are available and where)?
4) Any thoughts or comments are welcome from anyone out there - I put this out here in the main forum in order to solicit some constructive feedback.
Thanks alot in advance,
Kopfdorfer
Kopfdorfer
Would This Campaign Interest You?
Moderator: SEOW Developers
-
Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
-
IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2213
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Yes!
Before I go any further though, I must say my time is very limited for the foreseeable future.
Cheers,
4S
Before I go any further though, I must say my time is very limited for the foreseeable future.
Yes, but at what level I am not sure.1) Would you be interested in participating in this type of campaign?
I really like the double-blind/hidden statistics idea - we have been considering this for some time at SEOW HQ. You may wish to consider things like recon parameters, weather settings, freight functionality and command/control etc.2) Can you think of other parameters that I might adopt to make this a successful exercise? - bear i mind here that I am a neophyte to SEOW , though I have some experience designing campaigns in other game systems - I am not a computer literate fellow , though.
Yes, makes sense to me.3) Would you be interested if I introduced a level of detail that specified ordinance stores and resupply by weapon type ( ie how many of which bombs are available and where)?
There is an elephant in the room here - actually building and running the campaign. To go from where you are now to hosting the first mission entails a lot of work, including4) Any thoughts or comments are welcome from anyone out there - I put this out here in the main forum in order to solicit some constructive feedback.
- defining army division names inside SEOW
defining campaign parameters inside SEOW
designing appropriate technics and Object_Specifications mods and synchronizing them (including play-testing)
developing a template file or files and loading it/them into SEOW
adjusting unit names/locations
etc
Cheers,
4S
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
-
Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
Thanks again for your prompt reply 4Shades.
I have approached Brandle as you suggested , and while he has offered to answer any questions I might have , my inexperience makes it difficult for me to have precognitive knowledge as to what are the correct questions to ask.
Thus rather than "an elephant in the room" , I think I am up against the inertia of not knowing much and needing active assistance , whereas it seems that the active folks at SEOW are adopting the passive assistance approach (usually indicative of a group of folks who have seen a lot of people like me express initial interest , and then fade away when the amount of work to be done is realised). I fully understand this rationale , as I have been on both sides of it before. If I put it into the context of one of your early responses to my initial inquiry - the one about the pyramid of SEOW participants down to the other IL2 players , it seems to me that if there were some kind of a formula or mentoring committee for assisting someone like myself , the SEOW community might encourage a broader participation. I am not intending to be negative - I appreciate all the responses to my inquiries to date. But anticipating this impasse of development for my idea is explicitly why I requested the possibility of an individual mentor. In addition , given the concept of a "blind info" campaign , the less folks in on the original development , the more that could potentially enjoy the drama of not knowing the exact enemy to be faced.
Regarding your specific points :
1-defining army division names inside SEOW
I have got a great deal of this done ( ~80%) as per the description of such on SEOW wiki. I have only resisted posting on the Development board to preserve as much of the oob mystery as possible. I would gladly pm what I have currently to either you or Brandle or anyone else who would be willing to help me refine it.
2-defining campaign parameters inside SEOW
I have a firm idea of what I am striving for here , but need some guidance as to how to apply it within SEOW parameters.
WEATHER I want the weather to be generally poor , but ideally not to lose any air missions due to this ( I believe the campaign is too short for this).
If the dynamic weather feature cannot be tailored to fulfill this concept , I suppose the campaign admin could perform a "weather check" from a simple matrix of my own creation and simply input prior to the missions.
I would again use a simple deck of cards as a universally available random element, with one of the COs making a draw prior to each mission which the Admin will cross index with a chart of possible weather conditions.
RECON I want to use the dynamic recon feature , with a deterioration of ~10% per mission.
Initial Allied level ~30% Initial Axis level ~40%
VICTORY CONDITIONS There should be various Victory Possibilities , with the Allies having a few choices about how to win. The Axis would have less flexibility , their VC based primarily on preventing the Allied VC(s).
AIRCRAFT AND PILOT REPLACEMENT The Allies will have any airframe/pilot losses replaced on a 12 hour turnaround.
The Axis will have no pilot or airframe replacement.
CAPTURED AIRCRAFT There will be no use of captured aircraft.
SUPPLY The Allies will have limited onboard supply , and thus will be regularly resupplying by road and/or by air. They will have unlimited offboard supply.
The Axis will have several on board supply depots and very limited offboard supply. They will be able to resupply by road,rail ,air and by canal.
Both sides will have offboard supply bases , and the source of offboard supply will determine the entry points of the supply carrier.
This is to reflect the reality of the logistical needs of an army for firmly specified routes of traffic in a given operational area.
REINFORCEMENTS Both sides will start with an onboard OOB , and have
"potential" offboard RFGs available. With entry managed by the neutral Campaign Admin , each side will have a scheduled potential # of RFGs by Mission. RFGs will have random card draws to determine the exact timing and points of entry for all RFGs.
MOVEMENT If it is possible within the SEOW Movement model , I would have all wheeled vehicular movement by "Normal Mode" , and Tracked vehicular movement by "Relaxed Mode" to represent the soft ground conditions experienced during the very wet spring of 1945.
MORALE Dynamic Morale will be in use. Morale will be specified by unit prior to setup/play. According to the historical reality , both sides had a range of morale levels as dictated by the circumstances and experience of each unit.
FACTORIES I need some assistance here. Generally , the Allies will have no factories available , bu the Axis side will. The materiel produced by each will be predetermined by the admin, and be limited by type. I believe the partial production factory model for damaged factories is the best choice for this campaign , and the HSFX factory plates will be used , so that all factories will have a unique visual appearance (as part of the template designed by me within the FMB) rather than the
prefab readily identifiable factory version.
I have an idea of the specific materiel which will be produced , but I could use some advice here as well. Better done by PM rather than in public to preserve dramatic effect.
TRAINS The Allies have no trains available , the Germans will have several. They will be key to the German success , as many of the German units will have no indigenous means of transportation.
CANALS As Canals were important historically , the Germans will be permitted to resupply by canal. (Exact mechanics will be as per KiwiBiggles FMB method of Mission File editing - I have already succeeded in testing this on this map ; it just requires a text edit by the Mission Designer - if I can do it , anyone can). In order to alleviate the problem of bridges on the Ostfriesland map, all bridges are assumed to be raiseable bridges or locks (unless destroyed). Missions will plot ship movement up to the next bridge along the canal, which will take a predetermined amount of time to raise and move the vessel to the far side (more time for a larger vessel). From there the vessel will continue its plotted path until either its destination or the next bridge is reached.
BRIDGE REPAIR Bridges may only be repaired by engineers.
Wooden bridge repair time is 4 hours , steel/rail bridge repair time is 8 hours.
UNIT WITHDRAWAL The Germans may not withdraw any units (other than trains or Flights originating offmap) from the mapboard. Any units which withdraw are eliminated and counted as such.
The Allies may withdraw units without such units being counted as eliminated , but they may not re-enter for the duration of the campaign.
DELAYED FLIGHTS Both sides may use delayed flights.
FLIGHT SKILL UPGRADES This feature is NA for this Campaign
LEAFLET DROPS The Allies may use leaflet drops ,
the Germans may NOT.
RADIONAV SUPPORT This feature will be enabled.
STRATEGIC RADAR This feature will be enabled for both sides.
PARATROOPS Neither side may use paratroops.
PARTIAL DAMAGE MODEL This feature will be enabled.
SPIES The Germans may use Spies . The Allies may not use spies.
3-designing appropriate technics and Object_Specifications mods and synchronizing them (including play-testing)
I have no idea how to go about this step.
4-developing a template file or files and loading it/them into SEOW
adjusting unit names/locations
I have already done a great deal of this in terms of what can be done within FMB. I do not know how to use SFS Extractor , and therefore have not been able to edit the text for the NWE/Ostfriesland MAP. I have done the research and know which towns I wish to include and where.
"This kind of activity requires an SEOW system and some skill in using IL-2 FMB and SEOW components. Do you have a plan for all of this?"
I am aware that this kind of activity requires the SEOW system and knowledge of how to use it. I am also aware of my own computer familiarity limitations. That is why I came here with my idea in the hopes of finding a willing mentor.
I understand that everyone here already has a greater committment to SEOW than I do , and this means that a certain amount of their SEOW time is already committed to other projects.
I must say though , that if you - the current SEOW community - wants to encourage any expansion of SEOW , the encouragement of someone like me in an active way is to all our potential benefits.
I am saying this with no malice - again I appreciate the help and passive encouragement I have gotten already , and I realise that my tools are perhaps limited in regards to a computer based simulation/game.
I do believe , however , that I have some ideas to contribute if I get enough encouragement to slog through the parts of this that I don't yet understand.
I have downloaded what I believe are the necessary components to get SEOW up and running , but I have yet to install them.
Anyhow, thanks for the help so far.
Kopfdorfer
I have approached Brandle as you suggested , and while he has offered to answer any questions I might have , my inexperience makes it difficult for me to have precognitive knowledge as to what are the correct questions to ask.
Thus rather than "an elephant in the room" , I think I am up against the inertia of not knowing much and needing active assistance , whereas it seems that the active folks at SEOW are adopting the passive assistance approach (usually indicative of a group of folks who have seen a lot of people like me express initial interest , and then fade away when the amount of work to be done is realised). I fully understand this rationale , as I have been on both sides of it before. If I put it into the context of one of your early responses to my initial inquiry - the one about the pyramid of SEOW participants down to the other IL2 players , it seems to me that if there were some kind of a formula or mentoring committee for assisting someone like myself , the SEOW community might encourage a broader participation. I am not intending to be negative - I appreciate all the responses to my inquiries to date. But anticipating this impasse of development for my idea is explicitly why I requested the possibility of an individual mentor. In addition , given the concept of a "blind info" campaign , the less folks in on the original development , the more that could potentially enjoy the drama of not knowing the exact enemy to be faced.
Regarding your specific points :
1-defining army division names inside SEOW
I have got a great deal of this done ( ~80%) as per the description of such on SEOW wiki. I have only resisted posting on the Development board to preserve as much of the oob mystery as possible. I would gladly pm what I have currently to either you or Brandle or anyone else who would be willing to help me refine it.
2-defining campaign parameters inside SEOW
I have a firm idea of what I am striving for here , but need some guidance as to how to apply it within SEOW parameters.
WEATHER I want the weather to be generally poor , but ideally not to lose any air missions due to this ( I believe the campaign is too short for this).
If the dynamic weather feature cannot be tailored to fulfill this concept , I suppose the campaign admin could perform a "weather check" from a simple matrix of my own creation and simply input prior to the missions.
I would again use a simple deck of cards as a universally available random element, with one of the COs making a draw prior to each mission which the Admin will cross index with a chart of possible weather conditions.
RECON I want to use the dynamic recon feature , with a deterioration of ~10% per mission.
Initial Allied level ~30% Initial Axis level ~40%
VICTORY CONDITIONS There should be various Victory Possibilities , with the Allies having a few choices about how to win. The Axis would have less flexibility , their VC based primarily on preventing the Allied VC(s).
AIRCRAFT AND PILOT REPLACEMENT The Allies will have any airframe/pilot losses replaced on a 12 hour turnaround.
The Axis will have no pilot or airframe replacement.
CAPTURED AIRCRAFT There will be no use of captured aircraft.
SUPPLY The Allies will have limited onboard supply , and thus will be regularly resupplying by road and/or by air. They will have unlimited offboard supply.
The Axis will have several on board supply depots and very limited offboard supply. They will be able to resupply by road,rail ,air and by canal.
Both sides will have offboard supply bases , and the source of offboard supply will determine the entry points of the supply carrier.
This is to reflect the reality of the logistical needs of an army for firmly specified routes of traffic in a given operational area.
REINFORCEMENTS Both sides will start with an onboard OOB , and have
"potential" offboard RFGs available. With entry managed by the neutral Campaign Admin , each side will have a scheduled potential # of RFGs by Mission. RFGs will have random card draws to determine the exact timing and points of entry for all RFGs.
MOVEMENT If it is possible within the SEOW Movement model , I would have all wheeled vehicular movement by "Normal Mode" , and Tracked vehicular movement by "Relaxed Mode" to represent the soft ground conditions experienced during the very wet spring of 1945.
MORALE Dynamic Morale will be in use. Morale will be specified by unit prior to setup/play. According to the historical reality , both sides had a range of morale levels as dictated by the circumstances and experience of each unit.
FACTORIES I need some assistance here. Generally , the Allies will have no factories available , bu the Axis side will. The materiel produced by each will be predetermined by the admin, and be limited by type. I believe the partial production factory model for damaged factories is the best choice for this campaign , and the HSFX factory plates will be used , so that all factories will have a unique visual appearance (as part of the template designed by me within the FMB) rather than the
prefab readily identifiable factory version.
I have an idea of the specific materiel which will be produced , but I could use some advice here as well. Better done by PM rather than in public to preserve dramatic effect.
TRAINS The Allies have no trains available , the Germans will have several. They will be key to the German success , as many of the German units will have no indigenous means of transportation.
CANALS As Canals were important historically , the Germans will be permitted to resupply by canal. (Exact mechanics will be as per KiwiBiggles FMB method of Mission File editing - I have already succeeded in testing this on this map ; it just requires a text edit by the Mission Designer - if I can do it , anyone can). In order to alleviate the problem of bridges on the Ostfriesland map, all bridges are assumed to be raiseable bridges or locks (unless destroyed). Missions will plot ship movement up to the next bridge along the canal, which will take a predetermined amount of time to raise and move the vessel to the far side (more time for a larger vessel). From there the vessel will continue its plotted path until either its destination or the next bridge is reached.
BRIDGE REPAIR Bridges may only be repaired by engineers.
Wooden bridge repair time is 4 hours , steel/rail bridge repair time is 8 hours.
UNIT WITHDRAWAL The Germans may not withdraw any units (other than trains or Flights originating offmap) from the mapboard. Any units which withdraw are eliminated and counted as such.
The Allies may withdraw units without such units being counted as eliminated , but they may not re-enter for the duration of the campaign.
DELAYED FLIGHTS Both sides may use delayed flights.
FLIGHT SKILL UPGRADES This feature is NA for this Campaign
LEAFLET DROPS The Allies may use leaflet drops ,
the Germans may NOT.
RADIONAV SUPPORT This feature will be enabled.
STRATEGIC RADAR This feature will be enabled for both sides.
PARATROOPS Neither side may use paratroops.
PARTIAL DAMAGE MODEL This feature will be enabled.
SPIES The Germans may use Spies . The Allies may not use spies.
3-designing appropriate technics and Object_Specifications mods and synchronizing them (including play-testing)
I have no idea how to go about this step.
4-developing a template file or files and loading it/them into SEOW
adjusting unit names/locations
I have already done a great deal of this in terms of what can be done within FMB. I do not know how to use SFS Extractor , and therefore have not been able to edit the text for the NWE/Ostfriesland MAP. I have done the research and know which towns I wish to include and where.
"This kind of activity requires an SEOW system and some skill in using IL-2 FMB and SEOW components. Do you have a plan for all of this?"
I am aware that this kind of activity requires the SEOW system and knowledge of how to use it. I am also aware of my own computer familiarity limitations. That is why I came here with my idea in the hopes of finding a willing mentor.
I understand that everyone here already has a greater committment to SEOW than I do , and this means that a certain amount of their SEOW time is already committed to other projects.
I must say though , that if you - the current SEOW community - wants to encourage any expansion of SEOW , the encouragement of someone like me in an active way is to all our potential benefits.
I am saying this with no malice - again I appreciate the help and passive encouragement I have gotten already , and I realise that my tools are perhaps limited in regards to a computer based simulation/game.
I do believe , however , that I have some ideas to contribute if I get enough encouragement to slog through the parts of this that I don't yet understand.
I have downloaded what I believe are the necessary components to get SEOW up and running , but I have yet to install them.
Anyhow, thanks for the help so far.
Kopfdorfer
-
II/JG77Hawk_5
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Wed 10 Jan 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi Kopfdorfer,
being an active member of the HQ team I am glad to see your interested to see you getting actively into SEOW.
I would like to make an observation on your objectives.
I can see your keen to get started on your campaign as soon as possible but knowing what is involved in what your trying to acheive I know you have a lot of work to get through before you can really get started on the details.
Before getting too carried away with the campaign itself, getting your SEOW system up and running is the first step but this is a big one. This can take a large chunk of time to get sorted or it can be relatively quick depending on your PC knowledge and experiece. As you have stated it doesn't sound like you have a lot of this. To personally walk you through all the steps to get this done can be very time consuming.
No offense, requesting someones time and effort to assist you is fine but to get you started from scratch is asking, from personal experience, a great deal of someones personal time on Teamspeak which is what would be required if you don't wish to make that first step yourself.
The fact that no one has jumped in to help you through every step is understandable when people know what is involved when starting from scratch.
Your comment on seeing help here as passive assistance rather than active is jumping the gun to say the least. Please remember this is a passionate hobby for many but it is also all on our own personal time.
As I'm sure your aware already from reading the SEOW wiki page and the fact that you have downloaded software already shows you've taken the first steps to getting started. I recommend that you go though the install process and get your web server with MySQL and PHP up and running. There are many variations and packages that do this is a one install system like WAMP. While someone from SEOW could probably help you we are not experts at this. Everyones system is different and there are many web sites that are far better suited to help get you up and running with this.
Once thats done, then install the SEOW system itself into your web server.
Doing this will make you far more knowledgeable about your system and help you to be able to deal with technical problems yourself in the long term. I know as I have had to do just this myself. I now run an SEOW system on a second PC on a home network and host regular campaign missions weekly and have done so for many years now. Wherever possible I try to resolve any issues I have myself for the sake of learning how to get it done before putting my hand up. I must also note that most of those issues were self inflicted due to pressing ahead before understanding what I was doing at the time.
I don't mean to harp on but my main point is that with your own system you will be able to implement and see your campaign and test it in ways that you can't envisage when discussing in forum or placing objects in FMB. It is here in your own setup where you learn what questions it is that you need to ask.
So before getting to a point of frustration that your not getting direct help, help yourself by getting your system up and running and also read the Wiki as much as possible.
SEOW can be played in so many ways in in what I have seen, eveyone one has a different take on how they want to do it. The great thing is is that SEOW is built so it can be configured to play however you like. There is no right or wrong, just your personal preference on how you wish to campaign.
I really look forward to seeing you have your system up and running but please understand that there only a few of us and while we warmly welcome newcomers time is precious and different timezones don't help either.
Your campaign concepts are quite deep and specific and some aspects explore ground that has been discussed but not actively implemented or played to my knowledge. Its great to see someone wanting to explore such a detailed campaign concept.
Hope to see you on Teamspeak soon.
Cheers,
Hawk_5
being an active member of the HQ team I am glad to see your interested to see you getting actively into SEOW.
I would like to make an observation on your objectives.
I can see your keen to get started on your campaign as soon as possible but knowing what is involved in what your trying to acheive I know you have a lot of work to get through before you can really get started on the details.
Before getting too carried away with the campaign itself, getting your SEOW system up and running is the first step but this is a big one. This can take a large chunk of time to get sorted or it can be relatively quick depending on your PC knowledge and experiece. As you have stated it doesn't sound like you have a lot of this. To personally walk you through all the steps to get this done can be very time consuming.
No offense, requesting someones time and effort to assist you is fine but to get you started from scratch is asking, from personal experience, a great deal of someones personal time on Teamspeak which is what would be required if you don't wish to make that first step yourself.
The fact that no one has jumped in to help you through every step is understandable when people know what is involved when starting from scratch.
Your comment on seeing help here as passive assistance rather than active is jumping the gun to say the least. Please remember this is a passionate hobby for many but it is also all on our own personal time.
As I'm sure your aware already from reading the SEOW wiki page and the fact that you have downloaded software already shows you've taken the first steps to getting started. I recommend that you go though the install process and get your web server with MySQL and PHP up and running. There are many variations and packages that do this is a one install system like WAMP. While someone from SEOW could probably help you we are not experts at this. Everyones system is different and there are many web sites that are far better suited to help get you up and running with this.
Once thats done, then install the SEOW system itself into your web server.
Doing this will make you far more knowledgeable about your system and help you to be able to deal with technical problems yourself in the long term. I know as I have had to do just this myself. I now run an SEOW system on a second PC on a home network and host regular campaign missions weekly and have done so for many years now. Wherever possible I try to resolve any issues I have myself for the sake of learning how to get it done before putting my hand up. I must also note that most of those issues were self inflicted due to pressing ahead before understanding what I was doing at the time.
I don't mean to harp on but my main point is that with your own system you will be able to implement and see your campaign and test it in ways that you can't envisage when discussing in forum or placing objects in FMB. It is here in your own setup where you learn what questions it is that you need to ask.
So before getting to a point of frustration that your not getting direct help, help yourself by getting your system up and running and also read the Wiki as much as possible.
SEOW can be played in so many ways in in what I have seen, eveyone one has a different take on how they want to do it. The great thing is is that SEOW is built so it can be configured to play however you like. There is no right or wrong, just your personal preference on how you wish to campaign.
I really look forward to seeing you have your system up and running but please understand that there only a few of us and while we warmly welcome newcomers time is precious and different timezones don't help either.
Your campaign concepts are quite deep and specific and some aspects explore ground that has been discussed but not actively implemented or played to my knowledge. Its great to see someone wanting to explore such a detailed campaign concept.
Hope to see you on Teamspeak soon.
Cheers,
Hawk_5
I can help with some of this. Getting SEOW set up on your local machine is not that hard. If you want someone else to be able to use the MP you would have to run the PC and the server in a way they can access it. Personally I don't like people to have access to my PC in any way. Well with a few acceptions, 4Shades being an example of someone I trust.
The first rule of running a campaign in my opinion is finding the people who will do the planning. Until you know who your planners are you cannot customize the campaign in a way that will maintain your participants interest or address their abilities and preferences. SEOW is about people, with people involved in anything the technical difficulties are always secondary to personality issues. There is no point in contemplating a multi-player campaign if there are no human opponents.
If you run the campaign yourself and you are the admin for the campaign how will you handle the fact that you have may have confidential information? Can you still participate as a planner? The most interesting part of any campaign is the unexpected, the human factor that is totally unpredicatable.
The first rule of running a campaign in my opinion is finding the people who will do the planning. Until you know who your planners are you cannot customize the campaign in a way that will maintain your participants interest or address their abilities and preferences. SEOW is about people, with people involved in anything the technical difficulties are always secondary to personality issues. There is no point in contemplating a multi-player campaign if there are no human opponents.
If you run the campaign yourself and you are the admin for the campaign how will you handle the fact that you have may have confidential information? Can you still participate as a planner? The most interesting part of any campaign is the unexpected, the human factor that is totally unpredicatable.
-
IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2213
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
-
Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
Thank you for your thoughtful replies.
I really do appreciate the patient responses ; my frustrations are largely with my own ineptitude.
I will attempt an install of both Teamspeak and SEOW.
Hopefully my next comments will be in my sonorous baritone.
(I don't really know exactly where on the scale baritone falls , but it sounded better than soprano).
Kopfdorfer
I really do appreciate the patient responses ; my frustrations are largely with my own ineptitude.
I will attempt an install of both Teamspeak and SEOW.
Hopefully my next comments will be in my sonorous baritone.
(I don't really know exactly where on the scale baritone falls , but it sounded better than soprano).
Kopfdorfer
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LW/JG10_Armwaar
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun 01 Jun 2008 5:08 pm
My first suggestion on reading this list would be to look for ways to simplify the application of your idea in SEOW. Here is an example. You are looking to simulate three days of fighting. In my opinion, factory production is a misnomer on a timescale like this.Kopfdorfer wrote:REINFORCEMENTS Both sides will start with an onboard OOB , and have
"potential" offboard RFGs available. With entry managed by the neutral Campaign Admin , each side will have a scheduled potential # of RFGs by Mission. RFGs will have random card draws to determine the exact timing and points of entry for all RFGs.
...
FACTORIES I need some assistance here. Generally , the Allies will have no factories available , bu the Axis side will. The materiel produced by each will be predetermined by the admin, and be limited by type. I believe the partial production factory model for damaged factories is the best choice for this campaign , and the HSFX factory plates will be used , so that all factories will have a unique visual appearance (as part of the template designed by me within the FMB) rather than the
prefab readily identifiable factory version.
I have an idea of the specific materiel which will be produced , but I could use some advice here as well. Better done by PM rather than in public to preserve dramatic effect.
Kopfdorfer
I would suggest rolling your potential factory material into the reinforcements approach you are working on. As for on map representation, if you wanted to "hide" the potential reinforcements in certain factory locations where there would be value in attacking/defending those factories, that would be an interesting new wrinkle. For example, if Factory 21 was producing mystery item X, and it was bombed by the Allies on Day 1, mystery item X is them removed from your list of random/scheduled reinforcements. I wouldn't bother with the actual "production" of the item. Overall I think this random/scheduled reinforcement thing you are talking about could be a good long term feature.
Looking forward to hearing more about a late war campaign. I once flew an Me262 with some memorable success in an SEOW campaign. I spent more than a couple hours offline practicing engine restarts and one engine landings to attempt to maximize my chances of returning alive. Now, I am relegated to mostly groping around in the dark with a Fi-156 with malfunctioning instrument lights, but for some reason I keep doing it.
I am also ramping up some experimentation with various supply settings. You will find that some people prefer forums, some TeamSpeak. I suggest checking both to maximize potential for advice.
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Kopfdorfer
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu 26 Apr 2012 2:13 pm
- Location: Dartmouth , Nova Scotia , Canada
Re: Factory Production in The Bitter End
Thanks for your thoughts Armwaar.
I take your meaning re: factory production insignificance vs the scale of the campaign.
Quite frankly this is my own concept rather than historical , but if I may say so it is based on serving a specific supply need for two historical units in one case , and to provide the Germans a trickle of useful hardware as the Allies decimate German units. This is what I expect the character of the campaign to reflect.
I believe it will take a very tough minded Blue Team to keep fighting effectively in this campaign as they inevitably lose ground , troops and hardware.
Their Victory Conditions must reflect preventing Allied VC and survival.
Again thanks for your thoughts.
Kopfdorfer
I take your meaning re: factory production insignificance vs the scale of the campaign.
Quite frankly this is my own concept rather than historical , but if I may say so it is based on serving a specific supply need for two historical units in one case , and to provide the Germans a trickle of useful hardware as the Allies decimate German units. This is what I expect the character of the campaign to reflect.
I believe it will take a very tough minded Blue Team to keep fighting effectively in this campaign as they inevitably lose ground , troops and hardware.
Their Victory Conditions must reflect preventing Allied VC and survival.
Again thanks for your thoughts.
Kopfdorfer
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II/JG3K.Brandle
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun 14 Jan 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: North Atlantic
In game production is essential to attracting bombers to a campaign.
A working production model greatly simplifies the workload of the admin while greatly enhancing the need for strategic thinking and logistical planning of the participants. The limiting of the admin physically placing units into various supply points allows the admin to participate without knowing too much of what is evolving on the other side.
A working production model greatly simplifies the workload of the admin while greatly enhancing the need for strategic thinking and logistical planning of the participants. The limiting of the admin physically placing units into various supply points allows the admin to participate without knowing too much of what is evolving on the other side.