Official SEOW

Here is the "Historical" OOB ( as much as I have ) for April 1945 available for use in NE Holland.

Allied Air Forces

2nd Tactical Air Force
CO Air Chief Marshall Sholto Douglas

Components

No.2 Group RAF
CO Air Vice Marshall PE Maitland

137 Wing 88 , 342(FR) Sqdns Boston IIIA
226 Sqdn Mitchell II
138 Wing 107 , 305(Pol) , 613 Sqdns Mosquito FBVI
139 Wing 98 , 180 , 320(Du) Sqdns Mitchell II
140 Wing 21 , 464RAAF, 487RNZAF Mosquito FBVI


No.83 Group (Composite)
CO Air Vice Marshall Harry Broadhurst

39 (Recon) Wing 168 Sqdn Typhoon
414RCAF Sqdn Spitfire XIV
430RCAF Sqdn Spitfire XIV
400RCAF Sqdn Spitfire IX

121 Wing 174 , 175 , 245 Sqdns Typhoon
122 Wing 19 , 65 , 122 Sqdns Mustang III
124 Wing 181 , 182 , 247 Sqdns Typhoon
125 Wing 132 Sqdn Spitfire VIII
435RAAF , 602 Sqdns Spitfire XVI
126 Wing RCAF 401 , 411 , 412 Sqdns Spitfire IX
127 Wing RCAF 403 , 416 , 421 Sqdns Spitfire XVI
129 Wing 184 Sqdn Typhoon
143 Wing RCAF 438 , 439, 440 Sqdns Typhoon
144 Wing RCAF 441 , 442 Sqdns Spitfire IX
443 Sqdn Spitfire XVI


No.84 Group (Composite)
CO Air Vice Marshall LO Brown

35 (Recon) Wing 2 , 68 Sqdns Mustang II
4 Sqdn Spitfire XI
123 Wing 198 , 609 Sqdns Typhoon
131 Wing 302 , 308 Sqdns Spitfire XVI
317 Sqdn Spitfire IX
132 Wing 331 , 332 Sqdns Spitfire IX
66 Sqdn Spitfire XVI
133 Wing 129 , 306 , 315 Sqdns Mustang III
134 Wing 310 , 312 , 313 Sqdns Spitfire IX
135 Wing 222 , 349 , 485RNZAF Sqdns Tempest V
136 Wing 164 , 183 Sqdns Typhoon IB
145 Wing 329 , 340 Sqdns Spitfire XVI
341 Sqdn Spitfire IX


No.85 Group
CO Air Vice Marshall Basil Embry

56 Sqdn Tempest V
91 , 124 Sqdns Spitfire IX
322 Sqdn Spitfire XVI
3 , 486RNZAF Sqdns Tempest V
264 , 409RCAF , 488RNZAF , 604 Sqdns Mosquito NFXIII
29 , 410RCAF Sqdns Mosquito NF30


2nd TAF Command

34 (PRU) Wing 16 Sqdn Spitfire IX
140 Sqdn Mosquito
69 Sqdn Wellington

Air Spotting Pool 808 , 885 , 886 , 897 Sqds FAA Seafire
26 Sqdn Mustang IA
63 Sqdn Spitfire VB
1320 (Special Duties) Flt Typhoon

No.38 Group

295, 296 , 297 , 570 Sqdns Albermarle
190 , 196 , 299 , 620 Sqdns Stirling
298 , 244 Sqdns Halifax

No.46 Group

48 , 233 , 271 , 512 , 575 Sqdns Dakota


*** Additional Sqdns mentioned in other sources include
350 (Belgian) Sqdn , 402 RCAF Sqdn Spitfire XIVE

Austers were used as Artillery Spotters as well as liason aircraft.


Luftwaffe Units Available for the Battles in NE Holland.
This is a more nebulous OOB to construct , as Luftflotte 3 was assigned to defend western Germany , and Luftflotte Reich was assigned to defend central Germany at this time. In addition , the collapse on the eastern front caused a number of units in Luftflotte 6 to be redistributed as needed around the Reich. Further , nearly all remaining units of the Luftwaffe were suffering from supply and repair deprivation at this time, making it all the more difficult for units to stay in the fight.

Luftflotte 3
JG1, JG2, JG3 , JG 4, JG11, JG26, JG27, JG53, JG54 , JG77, LG1, KG51, KG66, KG76, KG53, SG4, NSGr1,2,20, Kommando Sperrling , Kommando Hecht, NAGr1, 13, Kommando Braunegg , TG3, TG4, TG30

Luftflotte Reich
JG300, JG301, JG400, NJG1, NJG2, NJG3, NJG4, NJG5, NJG6, NJG11, NJG100, KG100, Bordflieger Grp 196, AGr122, KG200

Luftflotte 6
JG51, JG52, NJG5, NJG100, KG55, SG1, SG3, SG77, NSGr4, SAGr126

I have chosen to represent the Luftwaffe in"The Bitter End" with a couple of core units which were heavily involved with the defence in the west
JG26 , and JG77 ,
and to compile and interesting cross section of unit fragments to make the LW play in "TBE" to be both challenging and interesting.
Roughly here is the Unit list...
9JG26 FW190D
7JG77 Bf109K
6SG4 FW190F
8KG53 He111+Fi103
8KG76 Ar234
Kommando Hecht Ar234
NAGr 13 Bf109G8
TG4 Ju52
10IVNJG6 Ju88 , Bf110
BordfliegerGruppe 196 Ar196
KG200 Ju88 Mistel , FW190A8
NAGr 15 FW189
AGr 122 Me410 , Ju188
AGrNacht Do217K



Allied Ground Units Available for "TBE"
This Battle is a representation of the final thrust by II Canadian Corps into the NE of Holland. The Primary Units were the Canadian 4th Armoured Division and the 1st Polish Armoured Division , with support from the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division.

4th Canadian Armoured Division
CO Major General Chris Vokes

4th Armoured Brigade
21st Armd Regt Gov Generals Foot Gds
HQ 4 x ShermanVA , 6 x Crusader AA , 11 x Stuart V
A Sqdn 12 x Sherman VA , 4 x Sherman VC Firefly
B Sqdn - As A Sqdn
C Sqdn - As A Sqdn

22nd Armd Regt Canadian Grenadier Gds
As 21st Armd Regt

28th Armd Regt British Columbia Regt
As 21st Armd Regt

Lake Superior Regt (Mot)
A Coy - 12 x M5 ht , 4 x M3A1 White SC , 11 x Universal Carriers
C Coy - As A Coy
I Coy - As A Coy
12 x 6 Pdr ATG Towed
8 x MMG Carriers (.50 Cal)
2 x 3" Mtrs
3 x 2" Mtrs
9 x MG
3 x PIAT

10th Canadian Infantry Brigade
The Lincoln and Welland Regt
A Coy - 3 x 2" Mtrs , 9 x MG , 3 x PIAT
B Coy - As A Coy
C Coy - As A Coy
S Coy - 6 x 3" Mtrs , 6 x 6 Pdr ATG Towed , 13 x Universal Carrier

The Algonquin Regt
As the Lincoln and Wellands

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada
As the Lincoln and Wellands

10th Lorne Scots
8 x 40mm Bofors Towed

29th South Alberta Reconnaissance Regt
HQ - 4 x Sherman VA , 7 x Crusader AA, 11 x Stuart V
A Sqdn - 19 x Sherman VA
B Sqdn - As A Sqdn
C Sqdn - As A Sqdn

15th Field Regt Royal Canadian Artillery
24 x 25 Pdr Field Guns Towed

23rd Field Regt RCA
24 x Sexton SP 25 Pdr

5th Anti-Tank Regt
24 x M10C Achilles SPG
24 x 17 Pdr ATG Towed

8th Light AA Regt
36 x 40mm Bofors Towed
18 x 40mm Bofors SP

(plus ancillary units)




1st Polish Armoured Division
CO Col T. Majewski

Divisional HQ
4 x Cromwell IV
1 x Crusader AA

1st Polish Armoured Regt
Lt. Col A. Stefanowicz
A Sqdn - 12 x Cromwell VII , 4 x Cromwell IV
B Sqdn - As A Sqdn
C Sqdn - As A Sqdn

2nd Polish Armoured Regt
Lt. Col S. Koszustki
A Sqdn - 11 x Stuart V
B Sqdn - 16 x M4A2 Sherman
C Sqdn - As B Sqdn
D Sqdn - As B Sqdn

24th Polish Lancers Regt
Lt. Col J. Kanski
As 2nd Polish Armd Regt

10th Polish Dragoons Regt
Lt. Col W. Zgorzelski
As 2nd Polish Armd Regt


3rd Polish Infantry Brigade (Mech)
Col M. Wieronski

1st Polish Highland Btn - 4 Coys
8th Polish Highland Btn - 4 Coys
9th Polish Highland Btn - 4 Coys
1st Polish Independent HMG Sqdn - 4 Pltns .50 Cal MG

Divisional Artillery
Col B. Noel
1st Polish Armoured Artillery Regt - 24 x M7 Priest

2nd Polish Artillery Regt (Mot) - 24 x 105mm Towed

1st Polish Anti-Tank Regt -
2 Coys each 12 x M10 TD
2 Btys each 12 x 17 Pdr ATG Towed

1st Polish Light AA Regt
3 Btys each 9 x 40mm Bofors AA Towed
3 Btys each 9 x M16MGMC

10th Polish Mounted Rifle Regt
Equipment ???

(plus ancillary units)

2nd Canadian Infantry Division
CO Maj General AB Matthews

4th Canadian Infantry Brigade
Royal Regiment of Canada - 4 Coys
Royal Hamilton light Infantry - 4 Coys
Essex Scottish - 4 Coys
4th Lorne Scots

5th Canadian Infantry Brigade
Black Watch of Canada - 4 Coys
Regiment de la Maissonneuve - 4 Coys
Calgary Highlanders - 4 Coys
5th Lorne Scots

6th Canadian Infantry Brigade
Queens Own Cameron Highlanders - 4 Coys
South Saskatchewan Regt - 4 Coys
Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal - 4 Coys
6th Lorne Scots

Toronto Scottish MG Regt - 4 Coys MG

14th Hussars Reconnaissance Regt*
1 Coy Stuart V
1 Coy Universal Carriers
2 Coys Armoured Cars
* OOB my own construct pending further research

German Ground Units Available for "TBE"

Oberbefehlshaber Niederlande ( Festung Holland)
CO General Oberst J. Blaskowitz
Chief of Staff Generalleutnant Paul Reichelt
Operations Officer Oberst Paul Muncheburg

OOB
Stab 331 Infanterie Div
Div Stab zbv 617

219 Infanterie Div
177 , 493 , 604 Gdr Regts
219 Fusilier Btn

703 Infanterie Div
219 , 495 , 579 Gdr Regts
703 Fusilier Btn
PzJgr Abt 973
Versorgungseinheiten 1973

XXX Armee Korps zbv
249 Infanterie Div
197, 623, 709 Gdr Regts
249 Fusilier Btn
949 Pzjgr Abt

Brigadestab zbv 20

34SS Grenadier Div Landsturm Niederlande
83rd SS Gdr 2 Btns
84th SS Gdr 2 Btns
SS Artillerie Regt 60
SS PzJgr Abt 60
SS LFlaK Ko. 60
SS Pioniere Ko. 60
Transport Ko. 60
+ ancillary units


6 Fallschirmjager Div
16 FSJ Regt
17 FSJ Regt
18 FSJ Regt
6 FSJ PzJgr Btn
6 FSJ Aritllerie Regt
6 FSJ FlaK Abt
6 FS Pioniere Abt
+ Ancillary units

149 Feldausbuildungs Div
1304 Feldausbuildungs Regt
1305 Feldausbuildungs Regt
1306 Feldausbuildungs Regt

ArmeeAbt Kleffel ( XXX zbv)

361 Volksgrenadier Div
857 Gdr Regt
858 Gdr Regt
1018 Gdr Regt
Fusilier Btn 346
Pioniere Btn 346
PzJgr Abtg 346
Artillierie Regt 346 - 4 Btns
+ ancillary units

63 Infanterie Div

11 Marine Infanterie Div
111 Marine Schutzen Regt
112 Marine Schutzen Regt
113 Marine Schutzen Regt


For the Record , this research is a work in progress , as anyone who tries to get definitive info on 1945 German units can attest to. Any further info or indeed corrections would be welcome.

In terms of a campaign as brief as The Bitter End is intended to be ( and I did plan it as a basic learning campaign for myself ) could not hope to include all the above units mentioned. What I hope it provides is a framework from which I can interpolate an Allied and an Axis OOB that will make a challenging and entertaining campaign.


Hope this unit mix represents something interesting for the campaigners out there.


Kopfdorfer

Hi Kopfdorfer,

You are going through the exact process that we use for establishing historically based campaigns. You might want to look at the process we went through for the current Korosten campaign, see http://seowhq.net/seowhqforum/viewforum.php?f=63.

Once you have the OOB to your satisfaction, you need to consider victory conditions (if any) and the playability settings you need to give a good experience for the number of pilots you expect to fly each mission. That will help you decide the scale of forces you need to put on the map, e.g. 150 tanks or 650 tanks, and how many can move per mission, e.g. 50 moving objects or 300 moving objects etc.

That's where we can assist because we have been doing this for years.

Cheers,
4Shades

Okay,
Here is the next level of my OOB "refinement" .
Criticism and comments welcome.
I knew full well that the listing I presented to you initially was way too large for the campaign I am aiming to develop - I just wanted to suggest to you that I actually have been doing some work on this and am not coming to the table expecting others to do the work.

Bearing in mind that I am envisioning this as a relatively "light" campaign , in order to make it achieveable for me out of the gate , the entire OOB seems way too large.

An outline of my (flexible - given advice to the contrary) Campaign Overview...
April 1945 Holland. The War is for all intents and purposes over, yet the fighting continues. Only the unflinching idealogues still pursue battle vigourously.
This is a 3 day campaign.
There will be 3 day turns per campaign date , and 1 night turn per campaign date.
D1,D2,D3,N4,D5,D6,D7,N8,D9,D10,D11
Missions will be 60-75 minutes duration only.
The clock will advance after each mission , and ground unit movement should be able to continue during clock advance.
The weather will be poor.
With 9 Day scenarios ,
Clear x 0 Good x 1 Hazy x 2 Poor x 3 Blind x 2 Rain x 1
The Allies outnumber the German units in all unit types save for FlaK.
The Germans are crippled by fuel shortages.
Canadian Units are all veteran by this time , but infantry replacement difficulties mean that despite overall superiority of supply , they are understrength in infantry. The Canadian morale , once high is now much lower knowing the end of the war is near , and with every man hoping he will not be a casualty before the end.
The Poles are also veterans , but their morale is somewhat better as they are driven by the age old motivator of revenge.
German Morale varies unit to unit, and neither the Allies , nor the German commanders know whether any German unit will surrender at the first shot fired , or fight to the death.

Despite the Allied numerical superiority, the Victory Conditions will be challenging , as time is critical for the operations to clear Holland.

All Allied supply must be trucked or airfreighted in, and the heavy concentration of Allied units west of the Ijssel ( especially the limitation of only 2 forward airfields) means a target rich environment for the Luftwaffe.

Victory Conditions : The Allies should win instantly by either
1)being in sole control of all onboard airbases at the end of any mission.
2)if all Luftwaffe aircraft have been destroyed.
The Germans win at Campaign end if they maintain control of at least one airbase and have at least 8 functioning airframes at that time.

Proposed OOBs:

Allied Ground

4th Canadian Infantry Division
1 x Div HQ
2 x Brigade HQ
8 x Regt HQ
4 Armoured Regts
~160 Sherman VA , 36 Sherman VC Firefly, 44 Stuart V
4 Infantry Regts 16 Inf Btns , 64 Inf Coys
2 Artillery Regts 24 Sexton , 24 25Pdr (T)
1 AT Regt 24 M10CAchillesTD , 24 17Pdr ATG (T)
1 LAA Regt 36 x 40mmBofors(T) , 18 x 40mm Bofors(SP)
3 Eng Field Sqdns 9 Field Engineer Coys
30 6Pdr ATG
1 Ground Defence Pltn 4 x 40mm Bofors (T)
29 2" Mortars
20 x 3" Mortars
72 x Universal Carriers
8 x .50 cal MG Carriers
12 x PIATs
11 x Supply Columns
6 x Dutch Underground Spies

***If these do not represent adequate forces to achieve the VC, it would be within the bounds of historical extrapolation to have units from either 1st Polish Armoured Division , or 2nd Canadian Infantry Division as further RFGs (Reinfforcement Groups).



German Ground Units

XXX ArmeeKorps Kleffel
Korps HQ
FeldPolizei Ko. (Political Unit)

HQ Panzer Abt zbv 20
1 Panther Ko. 8 x Panther A
1 PzkwMkIV Ko. 12 x PzkwIVJ
1 PzkwMkIIIN Ko. 12 x PzkW IIIN
1 StuG Ko. 8 x StuGIIIG , 8 x StuGIV

Div HQ 361 VolksGdr
3 VolksGdr Regts 9 Btns 27 Ko.
1 Fusilier Ko.
1 Artillerie Regt 4 Artillerie Btns 16 Batteries 32 x 75 , 16 x 105 , 16 x 150
1 Pioniere Btn 3 Pioniere Ko.
1 PzJgr Btn 8 x JgPz38t Hetzer , 9 x 88PaK43/41(T)

HQ 34SS Landsturm Niederlande
4 SS Grenadier Btns , 16 Ko.
1 SS Artillerie Bty 12 x Wespe 10.5leFH (Sf)
1 SS leFlaK Ko. 4 x 37FlaKPzIV , 4 x Sdkfz 10/5
1 SS PzJgr Ko. 12 x MarderIII 7.5cm (Sf)
1 SS Pioniere Ko.
1 SS FeldGendarmerie Ko (Political Unit)

HQ 16 Fallschirmjaeger Regt
3 FSJ Btns 12 FSJ Ko.
FSJ sMoerser Batterie 6 x 120mm Moerser
1/6 FSJ PaK Batterie 12 x 7.5 PaK40 (towed)
1/6 FSJ sFlaK Batterie 9 x 88FlaK18 (towed)
2/6 FSJ leFlaK Batterie 12 x Sdkfz 6/2

HQ 11 Marine Schutzen Div
3 Regts Inf ,6 Btns ,18 Ko.

630th Ost Btn 4 Inf Ko.
857th Ost Btn 4 Inf Ko.

1/77th Werfer Btie 12 x PzWerfer 42
2/77th Werfer Btie 12 x Werfer (sf)

8 x Trains
4 x Freighters
2 x Barges
2 x MFP

8 x Scheinwerfer Batteries 32 Searchlights
4 x Balloon Ko. 48 Balloons

10 x leFlaK Bties zbv 30 x 20FlaK38 (T)
12 x mitFlaK Bties zbv 36 x 37FlaK41 (T)
9 x sFlaK Bties zbv 18 x 88FlaK18 (T)
9 x GemFlaK Bties zbv 9 x 88FlaK18, 18 x 37FlaK41(T)
1 x Sf leFlaK Btie zbv 8 x Sdkfz 10/5
1 x Sf mitFlaK Btie zbv 8 x Sdkfz 6/2
1 x PzFlaK Btie zbv 4 x PzIV20Whirblewind


6 x V-1 Launch Ko. 24 x V-1 Rockets


Allied Air Units

83rd Group RAF HQ
(Composite) Spitfire Wing - WingCo
430 Sqdn RCAF 12 x Spitfire XIVE
421 Sqdn RCAF 12 x Spitfire XVICW
412 Sqdn RCAF 12 x Spitfire IXE

143 Wing - WingCo
438 , 440 Sqdn RCAF 24 x Typhoon IB Late
439 Sqdn RCAF 12 x Typhoon IB Early

Elts No.2 Wing WingCo
342 Sqdn(French) RAF 12 x Boston IIIA
226 Sqdn RAF 12 x Mitchell II
305 Sqdn (polish) RAF 8 x Mosquito FBVI

Attached Units under No.2 Wing
2 Sqdn RAF 8 x Mustang II
3 Flt 400 Sqdn RCAF 4 x Spitfire PRXI
4 Flt 400 Sqdn RCAF 4 x Mosquito PRIV
AOP Flt RAF 4 x Auster

46 Group under No.2 Wing
48, 233, 271 , 512, 575 Sqdns 45 x Dakota



German Air Units

HQ LuftKommando NO Niederlande
9JG26 12 x FW190D9 Late
7JG77 12 x Bf109K4
6SG4 12 x FW190F8
8KG53 8 x He111 + 12 x Fi103
8KG76 8 x Ar234
Kommando Hecht 8 x Ar234
NaGr13 4 x Bf109G8
NaGr15 4 x Fw189
10NJG6 4 x Bf110G4 , 2 x Ju88G6
7KG200 10x Ju88 Mistel , 6 x FW190A8
AGr122 8 x Me410B , 4 x Ju88C6
AGrNacht 4 x Do217E
BordfliegerGruppe 196 4 x Ar196 , 4 x Ju52 Float
TG4 12 x Ju52 , 2 x Me323 , 4 x Me321



This is about what I think the base OOB should be. I know the Allies are very tank heavy , but that should have trouble gettign across a few bridges, and the Germans should wreak havoc while so many units are in a small forming up area.

Thoughs appreciated.

Kopfdorfer

and ground unit movement should be able to continue during clock advance

Ground movement does not continue during clock advances.

29 2" Mortars
20 x 3" Mortars

HSFX only emulates 80mm mortars on both sides. The emulation is approximate - they use direct fire mode only and they act more like a rocket launcher.

You will need to identify the available objects in HSFX and "map" them into your desired objects list by changing their "verbose names" in the SEOW database. This is a trivial process. E.g. use a 45mm ATG and call it a "6pdr ATG".

Cheers,
4Shades

Thanks for the reply 4Shades.

I have some questions.

1) How many aircraft can be serviced by a single airfield?
I am assuming that there is some in game limitation , likely to do with
"parking" positions.
Is this value adjustable somehow?
Obviously , with only 2 airfields in Allied possession at Campaign start there will be congestion. I had envisioned basically the Spit Wing at one airfield , the Typhoon wing at the other , one Sqdn of each bomber type at each , the Mustang Recon Sqdn at one and the Mossie FB Sqdn at the other.
Historically speaking , it would be highly unlikely for an airfield to be activated within 48 hours of its capture , what with moving wreckage , repairing flight lines and crew facilities , etc., so the capacity of the 2 Allied airfields will be one of the key design considerations og this campaign, I think.

Can you (within SEOW) add airfields to the Map as the Germans did historically by using sections of highway as airstrips?

2) Can each major unit ( I am thinking Division here ) within a side be applied a different starting morale level ?
As you no doubt are aware , this was a major factor for the late war Germans.
Units like the 361stVG and the 11th Marine Inf should have very poor morale indeed. The 16th FSJ morale should be average (theirs would be higher , but for the awareness of imminent defeat) and the 34SS should be fairly good.
The Canadians morale had been good , but was in decline due to knowledge of the imminent end of the war - ie not wanting to get killed just before the war ended , and the problem of insufficient infantry replacements due to lack of political will at home.
Also , is there some reflection of unit fighting quality as per training and/or experience that can be adjusted, or is this simply done in the FMB?

3) Can the SEOW Mission Planner make (vehicular,armoured,artillery) platoons of mixed objects? Aside of the simple interest of making combined units , historically the Commonwealth never had enough Sherman Fireflies (with 17Pdr - the western Allies most effective AT Gun) to go around , so they had platoons (troops) that were a mixture of 75mm Shermans and Fireflies. Not only was the 17Pdr much more effective vs the heavy armour of Panthers and Tigers, but all 76mm Shermans (including all US variants) had severely reduced HE capability, so the mixed platoon was tactically expedient. At the time of Normandy only some units had Fireflies , and those that did had a ratio of 1:3 , Firefly VC (or IIC) : Sherman II, III, VA , ie one per troop (pltn).
Some sources say at the end of the war this ratio was up to as much as 2:2. As far as I know , no Commonwealth,Polish or FFrench units were entirely outfitted with Fireflies.

4) Weather. The weather in NWE was notoriously mercurial , and reports of this period often have days at a stretch of flying cancelled due to weather. In order to represent the "Challenging" weather of NWE , but not to bias the outcome of such a short campaign, I need to know what parameters I can apply within the dynamic weather option.
What windspeed does the SEOW engine consider too high for takeoffs/landings?
Can I set up a campaign weather range that is dynamic , but within limited parameters?
Ideally , the weather in this campaign would range from Good - Rain, approximately as follows...
Clear x 0 Good x 1 Hazy x 2 Poor x 2 Blind x 2 Rain x 2
with light winds and moderate gusts and turbulence - ie challenging but not prohibitive flying weather.

5) I would like some feedback as to whether you believe the scale I have presented will be appropriate for a campaign of this duration on this map.
A review...
3 day campaign , 3 missions per day one per night or 11 missions 9 by day , 2 by night.
Mission duration 60-75 minutes. Is this enough , too much or too little?

Are the land forces adequate , too much or too little? (I know this will only be answered ultimately in unfolding missions , but I have no experience to go by, and would like to hear the thoughts of others.)

I want the Germans to be (and feel) limited in tactical mobility , but with good striking power at limited geographical/territorial points. They (the German side) should feel very hard pressed to stop the Allies. Given encounters of equal force either in the air or on the ground, the Germans will be able to hold their own if well led. Supply should be a major concern - they should be on the edge of whether they have enough supply at each mission juncture.
The Allies should feel pressed for time. They should feel they have adequate forces to prevail , but high expectations to achieve victory.
They should also feel wary that if they hit the wrong German units they will pay dearly. The Allied air units should also respect the German FlaK as their major deterrent to operations.

I also need some advice on how many ground units to have moveable per side per mission. I felt that the Allies should have predominant capability by day , but the Germans should have the advantage by night.
I was thinking on the order of ...
By Day Allies ~60-70% unit movement
Germans ~ 30-40% unit movement (if fuel supplies permit)
By Night Germans ~ 50% unit movement
Allies ~ 20% unit movement

Is this reasonable given the sides' relative strengths?


6) Understanding the supply capacity of units/unit types is obviously key to success in SEOW (and real military campaigns) and I am poorly versed in this part of the planning. Is there somewhere a simple list of SEOW objects and their supply storage capability and/or usage available somewhere?

7) When assigning trains , does the campaign designer simply say side Blue has "x" number of trains and the side commander determines which types of trains , or does the campaign designer simply assign certain number of trains by type in the MP?


Likely more to follow.

I appreciate the ongoing support.


Kopfdorfer

Thanks for the reply 4Shades.

I have some questions.

1) How many aircraft can be serviced by a single airfield?

Airfields are allocated default parking places according to the airfield layout. These are soft limits, and you can overload individual airbases if you like. Also, you get to choose how many idle aircraft actually appear at each airbase as static airframes (targetable, of course).

I am assuming that there is some in game limitation , likely to do with
"parking" positions.
Is this value adjustable somehow?

Yes, a percentage slider for the "parking rate".

Obviously , with only 2 airfields in Allied possession at Campaign start there will be congestion. I had envisioned basically the Spit Wing at one airfield , the Typhoon wing at the other , one Sqdn of each bomber type at each , the Mustang Recon Sqdn at one and the Mossie FB Sqdn at the other.
Historically speaking , it would be highly unlikely for an airfield to be activated within 48 hours of its capture , what with moving wreckage , repairing flight lines and crew facilities , etc., so the capacity of the 2 Allied airfields will be one of the key design considerations og this campaign, I think.

Yes, airbases should not immediately come into service after capturing. SEOW allows retreating forces to demolish airfields (destroy all airframes and reduce base supplies to zero) by using engineer units. Also, be aware that you can define "off map" bases easily and fly planes from them, spawning as air starts. Useful for just these kinds of scenarios.

Can you (within SEOW) add airfields to the Map as the Germans did historically by using sections of highway as airstrips?

You can define extra airbases anywhere you like, using "temporary airbase" support in SEOW. These use the IL-2 runway objects etc.

2) Can each major unit ( I am thinking Division here ) within a side be applied a different starting morale level ?

There is no GUI button for doing this, but it is a trivial database edit once the units are loaded.

As you no doubt are aware , this was a major factor for the late war Germans.
Units like the 361stVG and the 11th Marine Inf should have very poor morale indeed. The 16th FSJ morale should be average (theirs would be higher , but for the awareness of imminent defeat) and the 34SS should be fairly good.
The Canadians morale had been good , but was in decline due to knowledge of the imminent end of the war - ie not wanting to get killed just before the war ended , and the problem of insufficient infantry replacements due to lack of political will at home.
Also , is there some reflection of unit fighting quality as per training and/or experience that can be adjusted, or is this simply done in the FMB?

Unlike aircraft and shipping, there is no skill setting for ground units in IL-2.

3) Can the SEOW Mission Planner make (vehicular,armoured,artillery) platoons of mixed objects? Aside of the simple interest of making combined units , historically the Commonwealth never had enough Sherman Fireflies (with 17Pdr - the western Allies most effective AT Gun) to go around , so they had platoons (troops) that were a mixture of 75mm Shermans and Fireflies. Not only was the 17Pdr much more effective vs the heavy armour of Panthers and Tigers, but all 76mm Shermans (including all US variants) had severely reduced HE capability, so the mixed platoon was tactically expedient. At the time of Normandy only some units had Fireflies , and those that did had a ratio of 1:3 , Firefly VC (or IIC) : Sherman II, III, VA , ie one per troop (pltn).
Some sources say at the end of the war this ratio was up to as much as 2:2. As far as I know , no Commonwealth,Polish or FFrench units were entirely outfitted with Fireflies.

No, but you can associated different platoons into "task forces" and get them to move together with a single movement order.

4) Weather. The weather in NWE was notoriously mercurial , and reports of this period often have days at a stretch of flying cancelled due to weather. In order to represent the "Challenging" weather of NWE , but not to bias the outcome of such a short campaign, I need to know what parameters I can apply within the dynamic weather option.

SEOW has its own configurable dynamic (mission by mission) weather engine.

What windspeed does the SEOW engine consider too high for takeoffs/landings?

There is no limit. But SEOW will inform commanders if cross winds or tailwinds are too high for safe airbase operations, typically > 14 kmh. It is up to commanders and pilots to decide whether or not they want to fly in bad weather.

Can I set up a campaign weather range that is dynamic , but within limited parameters?

Each map has its own climate parameters (rain probability etc) depending on season. These are in the SEOW database and can be adjusted.

Ideally , the weather in this campaign would range from Good - Rain, approximately as follows...
Clear x 0 Good x 1 Hazy x 2 Poor x 2 Blind x 2 Rain x 2
with light winds and moderate gusts and turbulence - ie challenging but not prohibitive flying weather.

The SEOW weather engine uses a starting seed (from the campaign template) and generates weather variations and forecasts based on the climatic parameters and time of year. You cannot specify what weather conditions you want, but once the weather data is generated (usually 24 hours ahead) you can edit it to suit your needs - again a database edit.

5) I would like some feedback as to whether you believe the scale I have presented will be appropriate for a campaign of this duration on this map.
A review...
3 day campaign , 3 missions per day one per night or 11 missions 9 by day , 2 by night.
Mission duration 60-75 minutes. Is this enough , too much or too little?

Realistically, both are just about right for your first SEOW campaign. After running just a couple of missions, you will no doubt see things that you want to change. Badger was unique that in his first campaign it ran for 160 missions or more.

Are the land forces adequate , too much or too little? (I know this will only be answered ultimately in unfolding missions , but I have no experience to go by, and would like to hear the thoughts of others.)

I want the Germans to be (and feel) limited in tactical mobility , but with good striking power at limited geographical/territorial points. They (the German side) should feel very hard pressed to stop the Allies. Given encounters of equal force either in the air or on the ground, the Germans will be able to hold their own if well led. Supply should be a major concern - they should be on the edge of whether they have enough supply at each mission juncture.
The Allies should feel pressed for time. They should feel they have adequate forces to prevail , but high expectations to achieve victory.
They should also feel wary that if they hit the wrong German units they will pay dearly. The Allied air units should also respect the German FlaK as their major deterrent to operations.

Looks reasonable at first glance. Just be aware that 40 pilots in each mission means at least 30 airframes destroyed each mission. In 10 missions, that's 300 less aircraft (for most public SEOW campaigns fighters usually get flown more and run out very quickly).

I also need some advice on how many ground units to have moveable per side per mission. I felt that the Allies should have predominant capability by day , but the Germans should have the advantage by night.
I was thinking on the order of ...
By Day Allies ~60-70% unit movement
Germans ~ 30-40% unit movement (if fuel supplies permit)
By Night Germans ~ 50% unit movement
Allies ~ 20% unit movement

Is this reasonable given the sides' relative strengths?

Percentage comparisons are OK, but for playability reasons you need to translate this into numbers of platoons moving per side. I would suggest 60 Allied platoons and 30 Axis platoons per mission during the day, but it all depends on your coop host bandwidth and performance.

6) Understanding the supply capacity of units/unit types is obviously key to success in SEOW (and real military campaigns) and I am poorly versed in this part of the planning. Is there somewhere a simple list of SEOW objects and their supply storage capability and/or usage available somewhere?

SEOW has something known as the Costs page which lists all units and key specifications. Of course, this is all driven by the SEOW database. There is a table in there called Object_Specifications which contains all the relevant data and allows you to customize many of these parameters to suit your needs. E.g. you may give a train the ability to carry 200,000 kg, or 400,000 kg or more if you want.

7) When assigning trains , does the campaign designer simply say side Blue has "x" number of trains and the side commander determines which types of trains , or does the campaign designer simply assign certain number of trains by type in the MP?

Not sure what the question is. Trains are like anything else, they have individual features. You wouldn't say to the German commander "you get 40 tanks" because if you did he would probably choose all Tigers. As designer, you need to be specific. Commanders will almost always try to win, regardless of historical context or realism.

Likely more to follow.

I appreciate the ongoing support.


Kopfdorfer

You really need to get on TS and talk to us. The information sharing would be so much faster. There is a lot to absorb!

Cheers,
4S

Yes you are right - I'll have to get Teamspeak rejigged soon. Then my insomnia will really pay off as you are about 12 hours ahead of me timezone wise!!!

I just thought of three more pertinent questions.
1) I know that SEOW is HSFX based , but I need to ask if other modded aircraft use is permitted provided all parties have the same air.ini in their install?

Use of the He219 , the Ju88G6, Ju188 , Mosquito NFXIII, NF30 would be historically viable for the campaign as well.

2) Is there any kind of ground unit that is specific to Recon tasks - ie more efficient at recon than other units? Is there a way in the CP or MP parameters to specify such units?

3) Can the SEOW system represent units that only moved on foot?
If so , how does one do it , and how do such units behave?

Thanks again.

Kopfdorfer

I just thought of three more pertinent questions.
1) I know that SEOW is HSFX based , but I need to ask if other modded aircraft use is permitted provided all parties have the same air.ini in their install?

Yes, all you have to do is add appropriate records to the Object_Specifications table to define the parameters for the new airframes. How you mod your game is up to you.

2) Is there any kind of ground unit that is specific to Recon tasks - ie more efficient at recon than other units? Is there a way in the CP or MP parameters to specify such units?

There are parameters governing "proximity recon" that are allocated according to the object class, e.g. armour, or vehicles, or artillery. Spies get special recon abilities.

3) Can the SEOW system represent units that only moved on foot?
If so , how does one do it , and how do such units behave?

Yes. They behave like anything else: each object has its own speed and maximum range, and consumes supply when idle and when moving at calculable rates. HSFX contains infantry units - the mobile animation is not great but they work OK and are in very wide use in SEOW campaigns. You just put them in the template and they are loaded along with other units.

Cheers,
4S

Hey 4Shades,

Question for the day...

If you are using ships in your SEOW Campaign , can you change the names of several ships of the same class individually in SEOW , or are you limited to having one of each class which you can rename?
For instance , if I want a small flotilla of EBoats, can I give them the IDs/names E1 through E6, or can I only change the name of the ship CLASS?

Thanks,

Kopfdorfer

Every different unit on the map can have its own individual (arbitrary) name, completely independent of the underlying object type.

E.g. you may have 15 E-boats, each can have its own name, even though they are all identical objects.

Okay ,

I have been continuing to probe into my desired "Bitter End" Historical timeframe , and now realize that the events in question actually occur across the German border for the time period in question ( mid April '45).
Please delete "Holland" from the title of the thread .

The Northwest Europe Map will still serve well for the battle area between
Leer and Oldenburg Germany. The westernmost (N-S running) canal will serve as the Ems River , the W-E canal will serve as the Kusten Kanal , and the easternmost (N-S running) canal will serve as the Leda River.

The Canadian OOB remains mostly intact , but the main antagonist should in fact be elements of the 1st Fallschirm Armee ( GenOberst K. Student) -
though elements of Festung Niederlande did retreat across the Ems and continue to resist the Canadians and Poles.

Additional German OOB ...

Order of battle (31 Mar 1945)
At the disposal of the 1. Fallschirm-Armee

-190. Infanterie-Division (Generalleutnant Ernst Hammer )
Grenadier-Regiment 1224
Grenadier-Regiment 1225
Grenadier-Regiment 1226
Artillerie-Regiment 890
- I. - III. Abteilung
Füsilier-Bataillon 190
Nachrichten-Bataillon 1190
Pionier-Bataillon 1190
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 1190
Feldersatz-Bataillon 1190
Versorgungstruppen

II. Fallschirm-Korps
- 6. Fallschirmjäger-Division (GenLt H. Plocher)
FJ Regt 16
FJ Regt 17
FJ Regt 18
FS PzJgr Regt 6
FS Wfr Regt 6
FS Art Regt 6
FS FlaK Abt 6
FS Pioniere Abt 6
Fallschirm-Luftnachrichten-Abteilung 6
Fallschirm-Sanitäts-Abteilung 6
Nachschubführer der 6.Fallschirm-Jäger-Division
Fallschirm-Feldersatz-Bataillon 6

- 15. Panzer-Grenadier-Division ( Oberst W. Maucke)
Panzer Grenadier Regiment 104
Panzer Grenadier Regiment 115 Panzer Grenadier Regiment 115
Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung 115
Panzer Abteilung 115
Panzerjäger Abteilung 33
Artillerie Regiment 33
Flak Artillerie Abteilung 315

- 8. Fallschirmjäger-Division (GenMaj W. Wadehn)
Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 22
Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 24
Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 32
Fallschirm-Luftnachrichten-Abteilung 8
Fallschirm-Pionier-Bataillon 8
Fallschirm-Feldersatz-Bataillon 8
Kommandeur der Fallschirm-Jäger-Division Nachschubtruppen 8

- 7. Fallschirmjäger-Division (GenLt Erdmann)
Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 19
Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 20
Fallschirm-Jäger-Regiment 21
Fallschirm-Panzer-Jäger-Abteilung 7
Fallschirm-Artillerie-Regiment 7
Fallschirm-Flak-Abteilung 7
Fallschirm-Pionier-Bataillon 7
Fallschirm-Luftnachrichten-Abteilung 7
Nachschubführer der 7.Fallschirm-Jäger-Division

- Kampfgruppe 84. Infanterie-Division (GenMaj H. Fiebig) * as of June '44
84 Fusilier Btn
276th Mogen Btn
Ohren Btn
1051st Gdr Regt 2 Btns
1052nd Gdr Regt 2 Btns
Volksturm 4 Kompanies
Pioniere Abt 184 (3 Ko.)
Signals Ko. 184
184 Art Regt
I. 1 - 6 x 105LeFH 18/40 (T) 2. - 6 x LeFH 18/40 (T)
II. 4 - 6 x 105LeFH 18/40 (T) 5 - 6 x 150 sFH 18 (T)
III. 7 - 4 x 88FlaK36 (T) 8 - 4 x 88FlaK18 (T) 9 - 4 x 88FlaK18 (T)
PzJgr Ko. 184 12 x 75PaK40
FlaK Ko. 184 12 x 2cm GebFlaK Sf

LXXXVI. Armeekorps
- Kampfgruppe Karst
- Kampfgruppe Thomas

XXXXVII. Panzerkorps
- Elts 116. Panzer-Division ? ( GenMaj S. von Waldenburg )
Panzergrenadier-Regiment 60
Panzergrenadier-Bataillon I
Panzergrenadier-Bataillon II
Panzergrenadier-Regiment 156
Panzergrenadier-Bataillon I
Panzergrenadier-Bataillon II
Panzer-Regiment 16
Panzer-Abteilung I
Panzer-Abteilung II
Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 146
Panzer-Artillerie-Abteilung I
Panzer-Artillerie-Abteilung II
Panzer-Artillerie-Abteilung III
Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 116
Heeres-Flak-Artillerie-Abteilung 281
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 228
Panzer-Pionier-Bataillon 675
Panzer-Nachrichten-Abteilung 228
Panzer Versorgungstruppen 66

- Kampfgruppe Knaust ( Ersatz Div 490 - MajGen H.H. Behrend )
Grenadier replacement and training regiment 30
Grenadier-Ersatz-Regiment 520
Artillerie-Ersatz- und Ausbildungs-Regiment 225
Pionier-Ersatz- und Ausbildungs-Bataillon 20
Fahr-Ersatz- und Ausbildungs-Abteilung 10
Kraftfahr-Ausbildungs-Abteilung 10


- Elts 180. Infanterie-Division ( GenLt M. Gilbert )
Grenadier-Regiment 1221
Grenadier-Regiment 1222
Grenadier-Regiment 1223
Füsilier-Bataillon 180
Artillerie-Regiment 880 I.-IV. Abteilung
Pionier-Bataillon 180
Panzerjäger-Kompanie 1180 (1)
Nachrichten-Abteilung 1180
Versorgungseinheiten

LXIII. Armeekorps
- 324 Infanterie-Division “Hamburg”
558 Grenadier Regt
559 Grenadier Regt
Division-Fusilier Battalion 324
324.Artillerie Regiment


- 2. Fallschirmjäger-Division ( GenLt W. Lackner)
2nd Parachute Rifle Regiment
6th Parachute Rifle Regiment*
7th Parachute Rifle Regiment
2nd Parachute Artillery Regiment
2nd Parachute Anti-Tank Battalion
2nd Parachute Machine-gun Battalion
2nd Parachute Grenade Launcher Battalion
2nd Parachute Anti-Aircraft Battalion
2nd Parachute Engineer Battalion
2nd Parachute Signals Battalion
2nd Parachute Medical Battalion

*(This was detached from parent unit and attached to different formations on several occasions)


In addition , there were a number of units available in nearby Wilhelmshaven , some of which could concievably have been made available in the defense of the Ems-Leda area...

These forces were at Wilhelmshaven at the time:

The light cruiser KM Köln, sunk in shallow waters but with the guns operational.
The floating air defence batteries KM Medusa, KM Niobe and KM Arcona (all unable to move on their own)
T63 (fleet torpedo boat under construction, with guns operational)

II Marineflakbrigade (with the following heavy flak battalions)
212
262
232
252
272
282

Marine-Einsatz-Regiment 20 (Regt Leisner, 2 btn)
Marine-Schützen-Bataillon 357
Marine-Festungs-Bataillon 364
Marine-Festungs-Bataillon 365
Marine-Landesschützen-Bataillon Wilhelmshaven
10. Marine-Ersatz-Abteilung (artillery)
2. Marine-Bau-Bereitschaft-Abteilung (engineer)


It should be evident that at this point of the war none of these units would be at organizational strength , so a fair bit of OOB "interpretation" can be justified.


An additional question.
There is a FMB manipulation method (thank you KiwiBiggles) for having ships operate in inland waterways , and I was hoping to have the Germans operate on the canals using this method. Has it been done successfully in an SEOW campaign?
The method , in brief , is to plot an aircrafts waypoints at altitude 0 , and a reasonable rate of speed for a ship on the waterway in question , save the mission , open the .mis file , and replace the air chief.ini with the desired ships chief.ini . I have done this successfully for offline missions , and was wondering if it had been tried or done successfully for SEOW.


Kopfdorfer

Kopfdorfer wrote:An additional question.
There is a FMB manipulation method (thank you KiwiBiggles) for having ships operate in inland waterways , and I was hoping to have the Germans operate on the canals using this method. Has it been done successfully in an SEOW campaign?
The method , in brief , is to plot an aircrafts waypoints at altitude 0 , and a reasonable rate of speed for a ship on the waterway in question , save the mission , open the .mis file , and replace the air chief.ini with the desired ships chief.ini . I have done this successfully for offline missions , and was wondering if it had been tried or done successfully for SEOW.

Yes SEOW can do it without any additional operation. Just plot the ship where you want and she will follow the way-points. Try to plot WP in detailled views: If not, you could see ships which are crossing ground sectors during the mission...

Here is an additional find for the OOBs...

II Canadian Corps - Corps Troops

II Canadian Corps Defence Company (Prince Edward Island Light Horse)
18th Armoured Car Regiment (12th Manitoba Dragoons)
6th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery (RCA)
2nd Survey Regiment, RCA
8th Field Park Company, Royal Canadian Engineers (RCE)
29th, 30th and 31st Field Companies, RCE
2nd Drilling Company, RCE
II Canadian Corps Headquarters Signals, Royal Canadian Corps of Signals
No. 2 Corps Troops Company, Royal Canadian Army Service Corps (RCASC)
II Canadian Corps Transport Company, RCASC
No. 33 and 34 Transport Companies, RCASC
No. 2 Motor Ambulance Company, RCASC
No. 2 Headquarters Corps Car Company, RCASC
No. 2 and 3 Casualty Clearing Stations, Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps (RCAMC)
No. 6 Field Dressing Section, RCAMC
No. 8 Field Hygiene Section, RCAMC
unknown Dental Companies, Canadian Dental Corps (CDC)
No. 12 Base Dental Company, CDC
No. 2 Corps and Army Troops Sub-Park, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (RCOC)
II Corps Troops Workshop, Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (RCEME)
Recovery Compani(es), RCEME
No. 13 Provost Company, Canadian Provost Corps (C Pro C)

Attached First Canadian Army Troops

No. 2 Army Group Royal Canadian Artillery
19th Army Field Regiment, RCA
3rd Medium Regiment, RCA
4th Medium Regiment, RCA
7th Medium Regiment, RCA
"E" Squadron, 25th Canadian Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), Canadian Armoured Corps

This is really an ongoing evolution , isn't it!


Kopfdorfer

Here is an additional find for the OOBs...

II Canadian Corps - Corps Troops

II Canadian Corps Defence Company (Prince Edward Island Light Horse)
18th Armoured Car Regiment (12th Manitoba Dragoons)
6th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillery (RCA)
2nd Survey Regiment, RCA
8th Field Park Company, Royal Canadian Engineers (RCE)
29th, 30th and 31st Field Companies, RCE
2nd Drilling Company, RCE
II Canadian Corps Headquarters Signals, Royal Canadian Corps of Signals
No. 2 Corps Troops Company, Royal Canadian Army Service Corps (RCASC)
II Canadian Corps Transport Company, RCASC
No. 33 and 34 Transport Companies, RCASC
No. 2 Motor Ambulance Company, RCASC
No. 2 Headquarters Corps Car Company, RCASC
No. 2 and 3 Casualty Clearing Stations, Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps (RCAMC)
No. 6 Field Dressing Section, RCAMC
No. 8 Field Hygiene Section, RCAMC
unknown Dental Companies, Canadian Dental Corps (CDC)
No. 12 Base Dental Company, CDC
No. 2 Corps and Army Troops Sub-Park, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (RCOC)
II Corps Troops Workshop, Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (RCEME)
Recovery Compani(es), RCEME
No. 13 Provost Company, Canadian Provost Corps (C Pro C)

Attached First Canadian Army Troops

No. 2 Army Group Royal Canadian Artillery
19th Army Field Regiment, RCA
3rd Medium Regiment, RCA
4th Medium Regiment, RCA
7th Medium Regiment, RCA
"E" Squadron, 25th Canadian Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), Canadian Armoured Corps

This is really an ongoing evolution , isn't it!


Kopfdorfer

"No. 8 Field Hygiene Section, RCAMC "

I volunteer Shades for command of this unit.