Official SEOW

Hi 4Shades,
The =69.GIAP=SQUAD encountered a strange SEOW behavior of the GLIDERS on the Kyushu map.
Yesterday we used the Glider feature for the first time. We loaded the 2 GLIDERS on different resupply points with 6 points weight vehicles loaded each.

Each GLIDER was assigned to its own flight - so they were completely independent.

Towing aircraft were 2 Betties, also each on it's own resupply point and flight.

The missions looked fine in the planer. Here are the reports after commit command:





As we launched the mission the GLIDERS spanned right on top of the Betties and as the game started both immediately exploded.

This also happened after a restart and independent if the Tow Aircraft was AI or human manned.

We flew the sortie on 4.09mb version of the game.

Did we something wrong during the planning or is there a bug in the system?

Hi MYATA,

I am not sure why your screenshots show deletions of previously scheduled missions. Anyway, the best method for me to see what is wrong is for you to send me your mission files and I will check them out.

Cheers,
4Shades

that's why I rescheduled both. I'll send you the mission files.
Thanks for your help.

Hi MYATA,

I got your mission file and had a look. In the interests of wide dissemination of the information, I will go through my debugging here in some detail. I hope you don't mind! I used 4.08m as debugging game version.

First, I examined the mission file using a text editor. Two single G4M1-11 Bettys (with type91 torp loadouts!) each towing single Me-321 gliders at midnight. Both glider flights had airstarts. I changed the time of day to 10 am for visibility and loaded the mission as a coop (just me playing) and selected a Betty G4M1-11 gunner seat. On mission spawn both my aircraft and the other Betty blew up, as was the bug report.

Next, I tested with default loadouts. Same result.

Next, thinking perhaps the Betty cannot tow a huge glider liker the Me-321, I changed to G-11 gliders. Same result.

Next, I changed the Bettys to C-47 gliders. Everything worked fine.

Next, I changed the G-11 back to Me-321 and C-47 to the Japanese variant L2D. Everything worked fine.

Next, I did what I should have done at step 1: looked in the default Object_Specifications to see what aircraft are registered as tow-capable. Doh! The G4M1-11 Betty is NOT tow-capable.

Lesson 1: Somehow the G4M1-11 Betty specification was changed in the campaign DB to make it tow-capable. This will never work as tow capability is hard-coded in IL-2 and is not negotiable. The Tow_Glider data in the SEDB Object_Specifications table should not be altered.

Interestingly, the G4M2E Late Betty IS listed as tow-capable. I changed the L2D to G4M2E Betty and ran the coop. Disaster again.

Remembering something far back in my mind, I kept the G4M2E Bettys in as tow planes, and changed the glider to the MXY-7 Ohka. Eveything worked fine.

Lesson 2: The G4M2E Betty is only capable of acting as a "tow plane" for an MXY-7 Ohka "glider". This really isn't a tow plane - glider combination in the true sense, but the way of pairing these aircraft in SEOW is identical to normal glider flights, a bit like the Mistel technique too.

So, the resolution is that an incorrect tow plane was being used. If you want to run Japanese (true) glider flights, you cannot use Bettys as tow planes. I recommend a L2D or a rebadged Bf-110 or He-111. For your Korean Unification campaign, I recommend changing all G4M1-11 Betty tow planes to L2D tow planes.

And finally ...

Lesson 3: If you want to customize your Object_Specifications table, and many campaign designers do, then make sure you test your changes offline before rolling them out in the campaign proper. There is a mix of negotiable and non-negotiable data in there, so beware!

Non-Negotiable Data:
Object_Type, Number_Name, Tow_Glider, Mobile, Stationary, Inactive

Commonly Changed Data:
Verbose_Names, Service_Date, Nationality, Recon_Capacity, Transport_Weight, Transport_Capacity, Morale_Influence, Engagement_Range

Cheers,
4Shades

Thanks a lot!
I guess the COOP behaviour has nothing to do with the single mission behaviour?
I flew Glider ops with the Betty towed offline without any incident. Or did I miss anything?

Wow! Maybe I missed something... but coops are different beasts to single-player missions.

If you have a working example of a single-player mission where a G4M1-11 is towing a Me-321, please send it or post it here. I don't mind being proven wrong if it can help us widen the options for glider operations in SEOW.

Cheers,
4Shades

RGR, tonight (that's in the morning your time) you'll have it...

Hello 4shades

Not sure if you received something about Betty and Gliders.
A long time ago, preparing the gliders Operations for the SEOW Campaign, we practice offline how to land a glider where you want, specially in the airfield.

This is an example of Glider Airfield Assault.
Theorically once the mission finish the result must be unload the troops just inside the enemy airfield.



Enjoy it.

S!