Official SEOW

Hi,
I'm playing with the idea of a generic radar "simulator" for Il-2 and I was wondering if it would be possible to use SEOW/HSFX radar feature to drive it?

The idea is (in a few short words):

input:
- radar client needs to authenticate, user selects one of the available radar stations for his army
- radar client needs to know the position of the radar station on the map, either fixed or mobile (ship)
- radar client must periodically read the position of all detectable objects (and it's own position if mobile) and updates the contact plots

features:
- client written in C# using XNA framework (DirectX)
- simplified but beliveable PPI radar screen (+ possibly an altitude measuring radar console - height-range display slewed to azimuth marker) reflecting target characteristics like size, position and speed
- random static noise, minimum range clutter
- detection envelope (not implemented yet)
- optional map grid overlay reflecting the radar station's position (not implemented yet)

ideas for the "phase 2":
- investigate the possibility to include terrain features (radar shadows, ground clutter)
- IFF simulation

Here is a preview (the app is WIP, target plots are just randomly generated and moving on a constant course)

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Absolutely gorgeous. Excellent work Riddler.

If implemented, you may have to provide some instruction for use.

Very nice Riddler!

Just some background here for those who are interested. The current (HSFX4.1) radar feature was based on some pioneering work by 6S.Maraz and 6S.Manu who developed a radar Mod for the Italian IL-2 community; this was used successfully in a Channel 1940 SEOW campaign.

This tool was expanded by me (with help from Maraz and Charlie) to include ship-based radars and identification friend/foe for HSFX4, but still using the basic uncertainty and detection envelope code by Maraz. A new tool for SEOW MP was built to automatically detect and display real-time radar information on SEOW maps; this tool is now operating in the Global June 1942 Campaign.

The SEOW tool was designed to be a simulation of the situation map rooms that we all saw in the movie "Battle of Britain", where radar readings from many stations was aggregated and displayed in near-real time on a large map. What Riddler is proposing, I think, is a dedicated readout display of a single radar station, and judging by his prototype, it will be a gorgeous tool.

Here are some thoughts on changes required to make the HSFX4 feature work for Riddler.

1. Station ID information will need to be written to the output (*.rad) files. Presently the files look like:
So you can see each of the active radar stations (RADARGROUND), but they are not indexed uniquely at the moment. Also you can see all the radar contacts (CONTACTGROUND); Riddler will need to know which radar station detected which contact - see next point. The 0, 1 and 2 fields variously indicate the type of radar (long/short range), nation of the radar and the nation of the contact (IFF).

2. In order to reduce the server overheads, Manu (oops - Maraz!!) used a "first detection" model, which I maintained in the upgrade. In a loop over all operating radar stations, the first time a particular aircraft is detected the loop terminates. Thus, there is no averaging of information from multiple stations for a particular aircraft which would actually have been possible. This is fastest, but has a problem in that tracking contacts for a particular radar station is not guaranteed, as it depends on the looping order for radars and their spatial coverage etc.

In summary, for Riddler to get the detailed, radar station-specific data I think he needs, a rewrite of the radar Mod will be required. I think the rewrite is achievable, but not a 10 minute job.

Now, in terms of actual use, the new tool would have to have access to the RadarLogs folder. I think Charlie has found that radar logs may be written to all clients simultaneously, and this can affect game performance, so often the RadarLogs folder is disabled on the clients. It might be an idea to consider embedding the application runtime in a web page, so it can be deployed as a server tool for people to login to remotely (like the SEOW radar tool).

Riddler, let me know if you need any further information.

Cheers,
4Shades

First of all, I'd like to thank you for the detailed reply.

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:
The SEOW tool was designed to be a simulation of the situation map rooms that we all saw in the movie "Battle of Britain", where radar readings from many stations was aggregated and displayed in near-real time on a large map. What Riddler is proposing, I think, is a dedicated readout display of a single radar station, and judging by his prototype, it will be a gorgeous tool.

Yes, you're absolutely correct I wish to simulate individual radar stations.
IRL "situation map" is drawn by operators on a transparent wall map or as we have seen in the BoB horizontal table map where flags representing enemy and friendly formations where placed. It works similar even today, although data is displayed on computer displays. Something like this:

- Radar console operator detects a contact, cross checks with the tactical situation display and if he thinks it's a newly discovered contact passes it to identification officer (by clicking on the radar plot which also engages auto tracking).

- New unclassified target pops up on the tactical display of the identification officer's screen. ID officer can see if the con matches one of the secondaries (transponders) or already tracked targets.

- If it does, he notifies the operator to stop tracking it, if not, operator keeps tracking the target (basically just making sure autotrack is working, and helping it if necessary where there is a lot of noise, clutter or if radar is being jammed).

- Tactical situation is automatically distributed to other units, navy ships, AA batteries, ground units etc.

- Our S-600 had a malfunctioning altitude measurement equipment (magnetron out of order, and since they were about to be replaced with AN/FPS-117 they deemed repair was not worth it), so we improvised by manually slewing an old russian PRV-9 altitude measuring radar to the azimuth of the contact, and manualy imputing altitude data to the tactical.

Oops, I think I digressed a bit

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote: 1. Station ID information will need to be written to the output (*.rad) files. Presently the files look like:

Code: Select all

RADARGROUND 1 0 220626.28 329131.3
RADARGROUND 1 1 224517.48 329281.06
RADARGROUND 1 0 213088.48 307721.03
RADARGROUND 1 0 196478.95 297859.38
RADARGROUND 1 1 206278.64 298340.7
RADARGROUND 1 0 179613.02 280089.88
RADARGROUND 1 1 214333.94 263726.2
RADARGROUND 1 0 209975.12 245864.58
RADARGROUND 1 0 180929.56 231875.69
RADARGROUND 1 1 175409.73 227311.62
RADARGROUND 1 0 158495.9 221602.81
RADARGROUND 1 1 154370.34 216602.28
RADARGROUND 1 0 111026.66 221711.97
RADARGROUND 1 0 79639.42 205765.14
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 211949.8 242376.92 2000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 211104.02 240746.95 2000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 211857.53 241645.77 2000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 1 210516.66 244748.66 2000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 1 210748.42 240800.67 2000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 209307.55 241976.25 4000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 209911.23 241443.64 4000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 210234.39 241537.66 2000.0
CONTACTGROUND 1 2 210557.28 241275.39 2000.0

So you can see each of the active radar stations (RADARGROUND), but they are not indexed uniquely at the moment. Also you can see all the radar contacts (CONTACTGROUND); Riddler will need to know which radar station detected which contact - see next point. The 0, 1 and 2 fields variously indicate the type of radar (long/short range), nation of the radar and the nation of the contact (IFF).

2. In order to reduce the server overheads, Manu used a "first detection" model, which I maintained in the upgrade. In a loop over all operating radar stations, the first time a particular aircraft is detected the loop terminates. Thus, there is no averaging of information from multiple stations for a particular aircraft which would actually have been possible. This is fastest, but has a problem in that tracking contacts for a particular radar station is not guaranteed, as it depends on the looping order for radars and their spatial coverage etc.

For the input data, each radar station would need to be indexed, so something like this:
Also, there would have to be a way to notify the radar client if particular radar station gets destroyed. It can be made in the same format (in order to keep it simple):
all zeroes on the radar site position = out of action

For contacts, I'd like to have additional info on the object game type because I planned to implement target RCS, client would show larger plots for targets with larger RCS, so say B-17 will be detectable further away then single engined fighter or at least show as a larger "blip". Something like this:

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote: Now, in terms of actual use, the new tool would have to have access to the RadarLogs folder. I think Charlie has found that radar logs may be written to all clients simultaneously, and this can affect game performance, so often the RadarLogs folder is disabled on the clients. It might be an idea to consider embedding the application runtime in a web page, so it can be deployed as a server tool for people to login to remotely (like the SEOW radar tool).

The client based radar would probably reduce the load on the server, client would calculate the detection envelope (range, altitude, possibly elevation angle). Server would just need to dump all the objects to a file and make it available in some way.
I'd be gathering data by calling a web service or downloading files whichever you think is the easiest to implement.

That's it for now, I have to get back to my RL work (((. I'll post the updated WIP shots when I get home.

Hi Riddler, email sent to you.

Cheers,
4S

Hi guys, just a quick update:
I have finally implemented the altitude measuring radar (squarish thingie on the right)
The operating procedure is the following:
1) You look for the targets on your PPI (the roundish thing on the left), and when you spot the target you click&drag the azimuth marker to intersect with the target (the second needle, I know it's not how the real thing works, but anyway...)
2) altitude finding radar is slewed to the azimuth marker so it starts painting the target (altitude finding radar tilts up & down instead of going round & round ))
3) On the Height-Range display (squarish thingie on the right) you can measure the target's altitude (horisontal axis is range, vertical is altitude)
(altitude scale on the right is * 100m, so 45 would be 4500m, range markers on the PPI correspond to the same range marker on the HR display)
4)you call your m8s and give them an update on the situation

That's the simplest way I could think of to enable a single person to easily operate the console. When I add a few finishing touches I'll post a link for download so you guys can see what it does.

Also, I've received help from guys from the SEOW team, but since Java really isn't my language I'm saving it for later. Simulated targets are good enough for testing.
Detailed manual will be available later

I rewrote the app to work as win forms control which can be used in a windows application or embedded in a web page. Yes, a real DirectX app running inside the browser, now if that ain't cool i don't know what is .
There is still a lot of problems to overcome (especially since I never did a c# app, DX app (XNA) or an installer for that matter), but things are moving ahead:

Looks awesome.
Keep up the good work!