Campaign Settings

Post by **IV/JG7_4Shades** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:33 pm

On the infantry movement modes, both Allied and Axis infantry have simple movement - they do not need to use bridges. All other unit types do need to use bridges.

My intention in setting this was that infantry can cross rivers without needing bridges.

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:12 am

Conversation with 4Shades & we need a concensus on whether to change the engagement range (from SEOW default) on the arty to reflect its max range to be more in line with its ability for long distance barrage. Atm both have engagement @ 6000m with the German 150mm howitzer max range @ 10000 & Russian 122mm @ 11000.

Opinions are requested.

There are also a number of other differences with ranges on other unit types that I will pm to 4Shades for him to look at.
EDIT: 4Shades pls check pm.

Cheers
Ikey

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:07 pm

I say we increase the engagement ranges of the artillery.

S'

Post by **IV/JG7_4Shades** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:25 pm

Here is the Sarata-specific data that Ikey gleaned from the HSFX5 technics file and from the SEDB33C Object_Specifications table:

Axis
******
150mm Howitzer 1918 :
Engagement Range 6000 m
AttackMaxDistance 10000.0

8cm Schwere Granatwerfer 34 :
Engagement Range 2000 m
AttackMaxDistance 3000.0

AT Bunker
Engagement Range 5500 m
BunkerR2_gun
AttackMaxDistance 1200.0

MG42 Bunker
Engagement Range 1400
AttackMaxDistance 800.0

Type 38 75mm Cannon
Engagement Range 3000 m
AttackMaxDistance 3500.0

75mm PaK-40
Engagement Range 4000 m
AttackMaxDistance 1200.0

Sturmgeschutz IV
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 600.0

7.5cm Panzerjaeger 38 Hetzer
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

Jagdpanther
Engagement Range 1000 m
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

Sd.Kfz.6/2 37mm Flak
Engagement Range 2386 m;
AttackMaxDistance 3276.0
AttackMaxHeight 2386.0

SdKfz-231 Puma
Engagement Range 500 m
AttackMaxDistance 288.0

MG-42
Engagement Range 1400 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

Panzer Grenadiers
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

Panzerschreck Squad
Engagement Range 150
AttackMaxDistance 100.0

Allied
*******
Mortar -
Engagement Range 2000 m
AttackMaxDistance 3000.0

Katyusha
Engagement Range 6000 m
AttackMaxDistance 6000.0

M30 122mm
Engagement Range 6000 m
AttackMaxDistance 11000.0

45mm ATG38
Engagement Range 3000 m;
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

T-34
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 520.0

100mm SU-100 SPG
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

76mm ZIS-3 SPG
Engagement Range 800 m
SU-76 -AttackMaxDistance 800.0

ISU-152 Zveroboy
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 1200.0

BA-64
Engagement Range 2200 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

M3A1 Half Track
Engagement Range 2200 m
AttackMaxDistance 600.0

DShK 12.7mm MG
Engagement Range 2500 m
AttackMaxDistance 500.0

Russian AT Section
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 100.0

Russian Infantry
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

Clearly there are some wide differences between the technics parameters and the default SEOW engagement ranges for some of these units (salient cases highlighted in red).

Personally, I think the indirect fire units (howitzers) should have engagement range set to their technics maximum range.

Cheers,
4Shades

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:03 pm

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:Here is the Sarata-specific data that Ikey gleaned from the HSFX5 technics file and from the SEDB33C Object_Specifications table:

Just clarifying that technics data from Expertmode/Fallgelb folders not standard HSFX5.

Zoi · Post by **Zoi** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:04 am

Command and Control Mod This could be interesting for campaigns like this one. I'm not sure if it works having never used it in HSFX and only in UP 2.01 prior to 4.10.

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/t ... 973.0.html

II/JG54_Emil · Post by **II/JG54_Emil** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:44 am

I don´t want to be a smart ass but these arty ranges are far from historical.

The historical data would even the situation out a bit (if you don´t mind the 4x 150mm Haubitze).

Personally I´d prefer historical data.

Axis
******
150mm Howitzer 1918 : it is in fact the 15 cm sFH 18
Engagement Range 6000 m
AttackMaxDistance 10000.0 11000m

8cm Schwere Granatwerfer 34 :
Engagement Range 2000 m
AttackMaxDistance 3000.0 2.400 m

AT Bunker
Engagement Range 5500 m
BunkerR2_gun
AttackMaxDistance 1200.0

MG42 Bunker
Engagement Range 1400
AttackMaxDistance 800.0 3000–3500 m(max range 4000m)since it is placed on the Lafette in the bunker and not in the field with the Zweibein. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschinengewehr_42

Type 38 75mm Cannon
Engagement Range 3000 m
AttackMaxDistance 3500.0 11600 m (Effective Range: 8350 m)

75mm PaK-40
Engagement Range 4000 m 1800
AttackMaxDistance 1200.0 (Max Range 7678m)

Sturmgeschutz IV
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 600.0 prefered engagement range was 500m, which doesn´t mean they attacked not beyond that range (Max Range 7678m)

7.5cm Panzerjaeger 38 Hetzer
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

Jagdpanther
Engagement Range 1000 m
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

Sd.Kfz.6/2 37mm Flak
Engagement Range 2386 m;
AttackMaxDistance 3276.0
AttackMaxHeight 2386.0

SdKfz-231 Puma
Engagement Range 500 m
AttackMaxDistance 288.0 max range 4800 m, so why not let it attack at 500m(still piercing 20mm armor)

MG-42
Engagement Range 1400 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0 800 m Kampfentfernung! for the Zweibein. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschinengewehr_42

Panzer Grenadiers
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

Panzerschreck Squad
Engagement Range 150
AttackMaxDistance 100.0

Allied
*******
Mortar -
Engagement Range 2000 m
AttackMaxDistance 3000.0

Katyusha
Engagement Range 6000 m
AttackMaxDistance 6000.0 8470m

M30 122mm
Engagement Range 6000 m
AttackMaxDistance 11000.0 11720m I don´t quite see why it should engage at 6000m only

45mm ATG38
Engagement Range 3000 m;
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0 4400 m

T-34
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 520.0

100mm SU-100 SPG
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 1000.0

76mm ZIS-3 SPG
Engagement Range 800 m 13290m
SU-76 -AttackMaxDistance 800.0 13290m (are we talking about the 76mm ZIS-3 SPG gun or the SU-76 tank?)

ISU-152 Zveroboy
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 1200.0

BA-64
Engagement Range 2200 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

M3A1 Half Track
Engagement Range 2200 m
AttackMaxDistance 600.0

DShK 12.7mm MG
Engagement Range 2500 m
AttackMaxDistance 500.0 max range 2500 m / effective 2000 m

Russian AT Section
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 100.0

Russian Infantry
Engagement Range 800 m
AttackMaxDistance 400.0

Post by **IV/JG7_4Shades** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:49 am

Nice contribution Emil - that's why we are having this discussion.

One thing to note is that I believe there is/was a hard limit on artillery gun ballistic ranges in IL-2 of around 11 km. I did see a mod that came out recently that seemed to extend this for some guns but not sure if/how it works.

I can't easily find the max range of a Wehrmacht 150mm 1918 howitzer - do you have a reference for that?

II/JG54_Emil · Post by **II/JG54_Emil** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:59 am

IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:...
I can't easily find the max range of a Wehrmacht 150mm 1918 howitzer - do you have a reference for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_Kanone_18

The term 150mm Howitzer 1918 is confusing since there is no such thing, neither in game nor in reality.

There was a 15 cm Kanone 18 and a 15 cm sFH 18 ( 15 cm schwere Feldhaubitze 18 )
The game is referring to the 15 cm sFH 18, which has a max range of 13250m.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_sFH_18

And actually the distances for the different shells are:
HE 13250 m
HE 11000 m
HE 18200 m
Smoke 11400 m

II/JG54_Emil · Post by **II/JG54_Emil** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:24 pm

quoted myself and deleted it again

Tanker · Post by **Tanker** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:34 pm

Historical accuracy is my preference.

Post by **IV/JG7_4Shades** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:52 pm

Based on the feedback here, I have changed the engagement ranges of all units to match the technics max ranges listed above (from the Expertmode/Fallgelb modpack).

So now commanders can just look at the Costs page to see the engagement ranges (which are the max ranges).

Also changed the verbose name for the German 150 mm howitzer to "15 cm sFH 18" and changed its service date. Thanks Emil!

I also renamed the Japanese Type 18 75 mm gun to "7.5 cm PaK 97/38".

Cheers,
4Shades

Post by **IV/JG7_4Shades** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:50 pm

I have also changed the mobility ranges of artillery pieces and bunkers to zero, so they cannot move under their own steam. OpeltBlitz and ZIS trucks on both sides have increased freight capacities so each truck can pull one howitzer.

Bunkers are completely immobile, so place them carefully.

Cheers,
4Shades

II/JG54_Emil · Post by **II/JG54_Emil** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:08 am

75mm Pak 40:
Engagement range: 1,800 metres (5,906 ft)
Indirect range: 7,678 metres (25,190 ft) m (HE shell)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Pak_40

7.5 cm PaK 97/38:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KezhQ6waZT0/S ... 7range.jpg
AP, Polish 7.5 cm K.Gr. Pz.(p) 1,500m
HEAT shells
HEAT 7.5 cm Gr.38/97Hl/A(f)
HEAT 7.5 cm Gr.38/97Hl/B(f) 1,500m
HEAT 7.5 cm Gr.15/38Hl/B(f)
High explosive and fragmentation shells
HE-Frag, French 7.5 cm Sprgr.233/1(f) 10,000m
HE-Frag, French 7.5 cm Sprgr.230/1(f) 7,600m
HE-Frag, French 7.5 cm Sprgr.231/1(f) 7,600m
HE-Frag, French 7.5 cm Sprgr.236/1(f) 10,000m
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Pak_97/38
How many of the French shells would they have in 1944 in Russia?

Should we consider 1500 as max distance?

Katyusha:
http://ww2total.com/WW2/Weapons/Artille ... uncher.htm states the M-13 132mm Katyusha Rocket with a range of 9295 yards=8500m

MG42 Bunker:
still shoots at 400m but has historic effective range of 3000–3500 m(max range 4000m)since it is placed on the Lafette in the bunker and not in the fieldlke the inantry gun. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschinengewehr_42

45 mm ATG38:
I´m convinced it should be called 45 mm ATG M1937 (53-K), since I cannot find any 45 mm ATG38 anywhere and has a max range of 4500m not 1000m.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45_mm_anti ... 937_(53-K)

Puma and BA-64 should definetly have similar engagement ranges.