Radar range a question

22GCT_Aquila · Post by **22GCT_Aquila** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:19 am

In map the radar type object is the long range station, which has a range of 80km.
But we fly on a map in a scale of 2:1.
For example, the distance on the map between Malta and Sicily is about 40 km, instead of the actual 80 km away.
If radars have a range of 80km could then brush the sky until well beyond Palermo and Messina and that it would be unrealistic and detrimental to the Axis forces.

Is that so? or the radar takes into account the scale of the map.

Classic EAF19 · Post by **Classic EAF19** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:25 am

Does our airspeed and fuel load take consideration of the size of the map?

Ala13_Florete · Post by **Ala13_Florete** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:21 am

Classic, our bombers can be in flight more than an hour with 50% of fuel. Are you sure that your fighters can do the same?

Aquila's request is logical. If the map has half size, the radar should also have the half range.

Nus Vemus!

AMVI_Superblu · Post by **AMVI_Superblu** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:37 am

Ala13_Florete wrote:Classic, our bombers can be in flight more than an hour with 50% of fuel. Are you sure that your fighters can do the same?

Aquila's request is logical. If the map has half size, the radar should also have the half range.

Nus Vemus!

I do agree on this.
If map scale is 1:2, everything should be halved (50% fuel max, eventually half speed max transports speed for the ground units, half radar for both sides and so on) like it was (partially) done in the BOB

Classic EAF19 · Post by **Classic EAF19** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:23 am

Gents this is all pretty academic the time for discussion was weeks ago, now the campaign is live the time for discussing the conditions is surely over.

6S.Maraz · Post by **6S.Maraz** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:25 am

By the way, radar range is hardcoded, it not something the campaign admin can modify.

AMVI_RugerOne · Post by **AMVI_RugerOne** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:01 am

Classic EAF19 wrote:Gents this is all pretty academic the time for discussion was weeks ago, now the campaign is live the time for discussing the conditions is surely over.

Do you like to win easy!

ghereghereghez GHEZ ghereghereghez GHEZ ghereghereghez GHEZ GHEZ GHEZ!!!!

Petr · Post by **Petr** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:11 am

RugerOne, your behavior is childish and not fit for this forum.

The rules WE agreed too (including you) in the pre-campaign meetings are here: viewtopic.php?t=2807

In addition, you are in the distibutionlist of leading members of the community who have contributed (or have had every chance too) and have received many mails asking for your opinion and suggestions.

You have NO right to speak to anyone like this under these circumstances and you are a disgrace to your community.

I expect a public apology.

AMVI_RugerOne · Post by **AMVI_RugerOne** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:36 am

Petr wrote:RugerOne, your behavior is childish and not fit for this forum.

The rules WE agreed too (including you) in the pre-campaign meetings are here: viewtopic.php?t=2807

In addition, you are in the distibutionlist of leading members of the community who have contributed (or have had every chance too) and have received many mails asking for your opinion and suggestions.

You have NO right to speak to anyone like this under these circumstances and you are a disgrace to your community.

I expect a public apology.

I do not think I was offensive to anyone .. If you offend for so little, I'm sorry ..

I remind everyone that in, BOB campaign, you made us remove the Fuel for the same problem!

S!

Petr · Post by **Petr** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:55 pm

@ RugerOne, ok, let's leave this behind and move on.

My reasons for allowing the long range radar even with reduced maps size are as follows:
1. the map may be smaller in scale, but climbing to 6000m still takes just as long as it would on a 1-1 scale.
2. Considering the above, it seems to me much more important to simulate the advantage the allies had in climbing (ie total warning time) than in radar distance coverage verus the scale of the map.
3. There are plenty of air bases in Sicily and Africa that are OUT of radar coverage as is now.
4. Long range radar allows intrusion missions below 200m, the short variant does not allow for this.
5. The Axis get radar on approx (considering the scope of the campaign)the time that Lufflotte 2 would have entered the sector, on mission 7 onwards. So in 5 missions you'll have a pretty good picture of what the Allies are doing. Or perhaps you find this ahistorical and would prefer the 30Km variant?

6. Perhaps a range of 50km would be better versus 80km, but as Maraz noted below, these settings are hardcoded and cannot be changed.
7. You have 55 seats verus the Allied 34 seats. This give you a HUGE advantage over the allies.

Cheers,
Petr

AMVI_Superblu · Post by **AMVI_Superblu** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:12 pm

As for the radar scale (also due to Maraz's clarification about it), we can't do anything about it which would be extra effort.

But still the 50% fuel limit as max fuel load (as it was being discussed in another thread) should be considered due to 1:2 map scale, as it has been done for BoB campaign.

S!

Ala13_Florete · Post by **Ala13_Florete** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:15 pm

If we consider that the map scale is 1:2, I still thought that the radar should be to 30 Km for both sides. The radar of this time was not very reliable, the sea, the weather and many other factors affected their reach.

In the reality, the pilots waited on the ground to radar operators' orders. We have a limited time to the mission, so we took off immediately with the advantage that this represents.

Historically the RAF did not know when he would attack the Luftwaffe and vice versa. We know when we will be attacked.

With this range (80mk), we have more than 20 min to locate and attack an intruder. With 30Km radar have no more than 8 minutes, this is a real challenge, in my view much more similar to what happened historically.

I've never flown one of your campaigns, but in ours the rules change when there are good reasons.

Nus Vemus!

Petr · Post by **Petr** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:07 pm

From the rules, well known to you Florete.

This has been in the rule set from the start. The time for discussion of such thing is BEFORE the campaign. As you know very well.

I am simply amazed that after all these TS conversations you seem surprised by these things. The allied side is flying at a 21 seat dissadvantage!

Also check this: viewtopic.php?t=2819

RADAR
1. Allied radar will be available in Malta &NE Africa at the start of the campaign.
a. The radar type object is the Long range station object. I was not able to find out if it would work with the LowChain object.
2. Axis radar will become available during the campaign in Sicily from turn 7 onwards (placed on map and in operation immediately). At the same time it will be available for shipment to the NE Africa sector.
a. Historically, German radar arrived in Sicily with the arrival of Luftflotte 2.
b. Historically 3x Wurzburg and 2x Freya radar where shipped to Africa by May'42. These will have to be transported to Africa like all other equipment and as such are liable to interdiction.
3. Only long range radar will be available for both sides. This allows for intruder missions below 200m to avoid radar detection.
4. Because the softer HighChain object is used, If a radar station is destroyed, it will be:
a. Repaired after 3 turns in NW Africa for both sides.
b. For the Axis in NE Africa, a replacement will arrive the mission it has arrived in a Sicilian port (Axis commanders choice). From there it needs to be transported to NE Africa.
c. For the Allies in NE Africa, a replacement will arrive at a rear area resupply point in 6 turns. From there it needs to be transported to its operational location.

Petr · Post by **Petr** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:14 pm

AMVI_Superblu wrote:As for the radar scale (also due to Maraz's clarification about it), we can't do anything about it which would be extra effort.

But still the 50% fuel limit as max fuel load (as it was being discussed in another thread) should be considered due to 1:2 map scale, as it has been done for BoB campaign.

S!

We will just have to agree to disagree. I would suggest you spend your energy on finding solutions for the situation you are in, veruss trying to change the rules to create the situation you want.

In reality, commander/pilots had to fight with what they've got. the option to write to the enemy and discuss some unfair advantage on their side did not exist.

The rules are the rules. They have been discussed at length. Period.

AMVI_Superblu · Post by **AMVI_Superblu** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:08 pm

Ala13_Florete wrote:If we consider that the map scale is 1:2, I still thought that the radar should be to 30 Km for both sides. The radar of this time was not very reliable, the sea, the weather and many other factors affected their reach.

In the reality, the pilots waited on the ground to radar operators' orders. We have a limited time to the mission, so we took off immediately with the advantage that this represents.

Historically the RAF did not know when he would attack the Luftwaffe and vice versa. We know when we will be attacked.

With this range (80mk), we have more than 20 min to locate and attack an intruder. With 30Km radar have no more than 8 minutes, this is a real challenge, in my view much more similar to what happened historically.

I've never flown one of your campaigns, but in ours the rules change when there are good reasons.

Nus Vemus!

^ This

It's not a matter of changing the rules because i want a different situation, Petr.
It's just a matter of fine tuning them for the sake of realism, which since EVER has always been the main point of focus for SEOW.