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Hi all,

With mission 11 up next and having answered this question a couple of times already, the below clarifies how phase 1 can end.

As most people will know, a phase can go in between 12 to 16 missions. The idea behind this was to avoid having to end the campaign in full swing but leave the option for ending it if the situation on the map would be boring.

So, 2 ways how phase 1 can end:
1. If BOTH sides agree to stop, the phase ends. If ONE side wants to continue we continue. Since bot sectors are completely integrated, the intent was to keep both sectors going. However, considering no ground/naval planning is currently done by the Allies in NE, perhaps it would be best to see them separately. I'm open to suggestions.

2. If 1 side wants to continue, we continue for a maximum of 16 missions. Then the phase ends regardless of the situation.

I'll ask both sides for their opinion whether or not to continue after mission 12-13-14-15.
Cheers,
petr

I see.... this was perhaps a point misunderstood by the allied side.....

Which is why I clarify this now.

It is also in the rules BTW and was explained like this on many occasions. I'll post the relevant section tonight.

Whit this topic name i tought this is anouncment that phase 1 ended now

For me if we agre to end after mission 12-13-14 or 15 then NE and NW sectors should end in same time. I dont wont to end one sector and continue with playing other sector.

Hi Count,

That would be the most logical if the 102nd would keep planning on NE which currently is not the case. As you know, they have not planned ground and naval for the 2 last missions.

Hence, I can only assume they want to end as soon as possible and wonder if it is worth playing beyond mission 12 on NE.

Can the 102nd please inform all particpants of what they want to do? I can understand you do not agree with the Tubruck ruling but in the final anlysis, the guys you are hurting the most with this are the Axis commanders and the people you always call friends. I.e. not me.

I do not want to restart a discussion over what happened, but I would appreciate if you could communicate your intentions so the other 80+ pilots can move forward.

Thanks!
Petr

I dont mined finishing phase 1 afer 12 missions also, but im just saying if NW wonts to continu playing more missions im not for option NW plays more then 12 but NE stops at 12. Sectors are together important for campaign and both should stop at same time, or continue depending on votes

Copy Count.

Let's wait for the 102nd feedback.

Hi,

I will permit myself to answer in the place of 102nd planners.

The guys planning NE did not appreciate the ruling about Tobruck, the reasoning behind it and the response of the other side. They do not want to invest anymore of their time to plan when they feel they have been wronged on several key issues. I am not opening the same discussion again, I am only saying this is how they feel and that they do not find it fun to plan anymore.

On the other hand, since we never left the campaign in our SEOW history, we decided we would not do so now. We are continuing to plan air missions and to give opposition in the air to our fellow pilots from the other side. In the last mission we had some very nice fights on multiple locations on the map and for all intents and purposes I couldn't see any difference between that mission and the missions before when the commanders did plan ground and sea moves.

Therefore, we do not see this as hurting anyone, rather we see it as our continuous dedication to uphold the obligation of flying in this campaign even if the situation is hopeless for our side. I think this should be recognized as positive and not made to look as something bad. We could have done like some other former participants did and demonstratively leave the campaign altogether, but we think it would not be fair to the other side.

This all being said, the discussion is on between allied commanders from all squadrons whether to continue or not, so for the moment I cannot say anything more on what their decision will be, but what I wrote above had to be said here in order to put everything in a right context.

Thanks for informing us on the 102nd position and its reasons.

There is no point in starting another discussion regarding the events that lead to this situation. In the final anlysis, a feeling cannot be ignored and if people are not having fun than it is their right to stop playing and we should respect their decision.

I do feel that the 102nd, one of the oldest SEOW squadrons out there, is setting a dangerous precedent by this decision. I hope this will not become the standard rather than the exception in SEOW campaigns of the future.

One point I do want to react to is the remark "even if the situation is hopeless for our side". This is manifestly untrue as can be seen from the VP thread. I would describe the Allied situation as challenging but certainly not hopeless. In military terms this would be termed as a reverse after a failed attempt to break through to Tubruck, but with Bir El Gobi, Solum and Halfaya Pass still in Allied hands and considering the Allied reserves available, it is well within the capacity of the Allies to put up a sollid defence with an eye for phase 2. The result will most likely be a draw but then this campaign was always intended to last mulitple phases.

Lastly, is the 102nd comitted to keep flying as long as the NW is still on-going? Or will you only fly 12 missions regardless?

Cheers,
Petr

Petr wrote: I do feel that the 102nd, one of the oldest SEOW squadrons out there, is setting a dangerous precedent by this decision. I hope this will not become the standard rather than the exception in SEOW campaigns of the future

Wrong. Precedent was made after only few missions at the start of the campaign and it was not made by a single SQ but by entire community, so don't blame this on 102nd. Whats more, 102nd was willing to find solution when this happened and tried to continued campaign only out of respect for Admin's hard work and efforts put in this SEOW, when most of the participants were ready to leave the campaign.

We have honored our deal, a minimum is reached, everything over that is optional, and if people don't have fun anymore, what's the point?

102nd-YU-Uross wrote:

Petr wrote: I do feel that the 102nd, one of the oldest SEOW squadrons out there, is setting a dangerous precedent by this decision. I hope this will not become the standard rather than the exception in SEOW campaigns of the future

Wrong. Precedent was made after only few missions at the start of the campaign and it was not made by a single SQ but by entire community, so don't blame this on 102nd. Whats more, 102nd was willing to find solution when this happened and tried to continued campaign only out of respect for Admin's hard work and efforts put in this SEOW, when most of the participants were ready to leave the campaign.

We have honored our deal, a minimum is reached, everything over that is optional, and if people don't have fun anymore, what's the point?

The precedent I'm talking about is flying but not planning ground/naval. Which I certainly prefer over quitting all together, especially in this stage of the campaign. I still feel it is dangerous, but perhaps I'm biased.

The point is that the NW could well continue for several missions, perhaps even to mission 16. So if the 102nd is only comitted to flying until mission 12 this will give issues since the sectors are intergrated to such a large degree.

So the question remains, will the 102nd only fly until mission 12, or, if the situation arrises, is the 102nd prepared to continue to keep the campaign in sync.

Cheers,
Petr

I don't understand why are saying this? Ships are moving to Malta, problem is we can't CAP them but they are planned. In the air we changed tactic a bit, hoping to make a hard blow to Axis air force like we did in last mission and we were very active. As for ground war, I don't wont to talk on open forum about it , but look at it like this, we lost one CP, gain another and our offensive is put on halt by Axis, but let us not discuss in open forum...

The allies side is unanimously agreed to end at mission 12 if this is acceptable.

The reasoning behind this is that some of us only allocated enough time for the 12 missions and there has been a large amount of stress and strained relationships in this campaign which has sapped some of the enjoyment so bringing the phase to an end as soon as possible is we believe for the best.

Hi Classic, just to make sure, are we talking about ending both sectors or only NE?

Thanks!
Petr

Hi all!
Tell me guys,what do you say about flying the last 12. mission this sunday 22.12? We are not going to have more than 12 missions anyway so why to wait until 14.1. We can finish it,drink few bottles together and go to vacations in peace.