For clarification
Moderator: SEOW Developers
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IV/JG7_4Shades
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- Location: Perth, Western Australia
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II./JG1_RivRat
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BS8th_Bulau
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 1:45 pm
I'm on the verge of creating the Blue template, which will be merged with the Red template, for the campaign that Jaw is talking about. I've read through the SEOW Guide, and also the template creation instructions in the FAQ found at: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~4Shades/SE_FAQ.htm however a few things remain unclear to me.
It seems like I initially deploy my aircraft in this template, by placing airspawn waypoints in the FMB, and at least 3 waypoints ending with a landing waypoint at the desired deployment location. Is that the way it is done? If I, as Axis commander, have a total of 125 aircraft at my disposal, I assume, then, that I need to place enough flights with waypoints and landings to add up to the 125 total?
Does the number of aircraft bays available at the various airstrips on the map limit the total number of aircraft that can be deployed? In other words, if I have 125 aircraft, but there are only 80 bays at the Axis airstrips, what happens with the other 45 aircraft?
Are ground forces deployed in a similar manner? What objects do I use for the ground forces that will be required to move during the campaign? Must they be taken from the moving objects menus (tanks, vehicles, ships, etc.), or does the SEOW MP also use the static versions of these objects?
It seems like I initially deploy my aircraft in this template, by placing airspawn waypoints in the FMB, and at least 3 waypoints ending with a landing waypoint at the desired deployment location. Is that the way it is done? If I, as Axis commander, have a total of 125 aircraft at my disposal, I assume, then, that I need to place enough flights with waypoints and landings to add up to the 125 total?
Does the number of aircraft bays available at the various airstrips on the map limit the total number of aircraft that can be deployed? In other words, if I have 125 aircraft, but there are only 80 bays at the Axis airstrips, what happens with the other 45 aircraft?
Are ground forces deployed in a similar manner? What objects do I use for the ground forces that will be required to move during the campaign? Must they be taken from the moving objects menus (tanks, vehicles, ships, etc.), or does the SEOW MP also use the static versions of these objects?
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hi Bulau,
These are all reasonable questions as you try to familiarise yourself with SEOW. Basically, for everything except aircraft, you just place moving or stationary objects on the map where you want them. At template initialization time, SEOW will convert these into platoons and flotillas automatically. If they are moving in your template, then they will start the campaign "In Progress" moving along the waypoint path you give them. The campaign admin can choose to scrub all template waypoints if he/she so desires.
For aircraft, the situation is different. Each flight must start in the air and be given a landing waypoint at its desired airbase. SEOW will throw away all the waypoints, but will use the respective landing coordinates to locate the flights at their respective airbases. Make sure you assign regimental affiliations to each flight, e.g. I/JG52 Staffel 1, Schwarm 2. The only restriction to use of regimental affiliation is that you must NEVER use any flight in Staffel 4 (or Squadron 4 or Zveno 4 etc) of any air regiment. SEOW reserves the use of the last Staffel/Squadron in every air regiment for reinforcement transfer flights. If you do use such a squadron by mistake, SEOW will complain at template initialization time.
Finally, some real examples of template files would be helpful for you. At seow.sourceforge.net there are some templates available for download. Check them out - they are just FMB files you can open and examine to see how things are done.
Cheers,
4Shades
These are all reasonable questions as you try to familiarise yourself with SEOW. Basically, for everything except aircraft, you just place moving or stationary objects on the map where you want them. At template initialization time, SEOW will convert these into platoons and flotillas automatically. If they are moving in your template, then they will start the campaign "In Progress" moving along the waypoint path you give them. The campaign admin can choose to scrub all template waypoints if he/she so desires.
For aircraft, the situation is different. Each flight must start in the air and be given a landing waypoint at its desired airbase. SEOW will throw away all the waypoints, but will use the respective landing coordinates to locate the flights at their respective airbases. Make sure you assign regimental affiliations to each flight, e.g. I/JG52 Staffel 1, Schwarm 2. The only restriction to use of regimental affiliation is that you must NEVER use any flight in Staffel 4 (or Squadron 4 or Zveno 4 etc) of any air regiment. SEOW reserves the use of the last Staffel/Squadron in every air regiment for reinforcement transfer flights. If you do use such a squadron by mistake, SEOW will complain at template initialization time.
Finally, some real examples of template files would be helpful for you. At seow.sourceforge.net there are some templates available for download. Check them out - they are just FMB files you can open and examine to see how things are done.
Cheers,
4Shades
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
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BS8th_Bulau
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 1:45 pm
Thank you 4 Shades! I actually have already started doing your suggestion, looking at existing templates. I'm understanding, now, that I can use static or moving ground objects interchangeably in templates. In other words, a static tank or AAA is not forever destined to remain in that spot, but can later be ordered to relocate in the Mission Planner.
I wasn't sure about the relationship between the number of bays at an airbase, and the number of aircraft that could be deployed at that airbase, but I've seen templates where the number of aircraft deployed far exceeds the number of bays at the base, so I'm assuming that is not a hard limit. Jaw is going to assign a parking percentage to help with this.
I was wondering about the aircraft affiliations, and you've now answered that...I must assign them regimental affiliations.
I wasn't sure about the relationship between the number of bays at an airbase, and the number of aircraft that could be deployed at that airbase, but I've seen templates where the number of aircraft deployed far exceeds the number of bays at the base, so I'm assuming that is not a hard limit. Jaw is going to assign a parking percentage to help with this.
I was wondering about the aircraft affiliations, and you've now answered that...I must assign them regimental affiliations.
Ok, I have some questions about fuel.
Ground units, such as tanks and cars and trucks, how do you resupply them? I know it requires a fuel truck. Heres a better question, if you have a fuel truck within a group of tanks, do those tanks stay in supply constantly until that truck runs out? or dies? And how do I resupply my fuel truck with fuel so it can move? I know you can drop supplies using supply aircraft (c47) is that how its done?
Ground units, such as tanks and cars and trucks, how do you resupply them? I know it requires a fuel truck. Heres a better question, if you have a fuel truck within a group of tanks, do those tanks stay in supply constantly until that truck runs out? or dies? And how do I resupply my fuel truck with fuel so it can move? I know you can drop supplies using supply aircraft (c47) is that how its done?
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hi Jaw,
All transportation units can carry freight. Freight is classed as any load that is additional to the normal configuration of the unit. Thus, freight can include supply, as well as other "smaller" units. So, yes, your trucks can carry supply. Transportation units have special unit tooltips that list the freight carrier - just mouse over a transportation unit in the MP to see the difference.
To load a truck up with supply, get it near a fuel dump and then select the Logistics:Freight tool. Select your truck and get it to load supplies. Then drive it to your tanks. At the end of each mission your tanks will take supplies from your truck, as much as they can get to fill their needs. When the truck runs out, the tanks stop refilling from it. You will need to send another supply truck!
You are also correct about supply drops. You can simply send transport aircraft to perform an air drop for the tanks - remember to load your transport plane with supplies first! Also, enemy forces can use your supply drops if they find them.
Cheers,
4Shades
All transportation units can carry freight. Freight is classed as any load that is additional to the normal configuration of the unit. Thus, freight can include supply, as well as other "smaller" units. So, yes, your trucks can carry supply. Transportation units have special unit tooltips that list the freight carrier - just mouse over a transportation unit in the MP to see the difference.
To load a truck up with supply, get it near a fuel dump and then select the Logistics:Freight tool. Select your truck and get it to load supplies. Then drive it to your tanks. At the end of each mission your tanks will take supplies from your truck, as much as they can get to fill their needs. When the truck runs out, the tanks stop refilling from it. You will need to send another supply truck!
You are also correct about supply drops. You can simply send transport aircraft to perform an air drop for the tanks - remember to load your transport plane with supplies first! Also, enemy forces can use your supply drops if they find them.
Cheers,
4Shades
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
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BS8th_Bulau
- Posts: 38
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
The big cylindrical fuel tanks, airbases, resupply points, supply drops: all these can be used by freight units to gather supplies as freight.What constitutes a fuel dump that the trucks can freight up from?
This description is not clear enough to diagnose. Are you saying that your truck unit was listed inside the Logistics:Freight pull-down menu and, once selected, no nearby supply stores were presented? Or was your truck not listed as a freight unit in the Logistics:Freight pull-down menu at all?When this campaign started, I could not load my trucks from the airbase fuel reserve, even though they were well within the 3km radius.
If it is the latter, then your truck is not a registered freight-carrying vehicle type.
Cheers,
4Shades
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
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BS8th_Bulau
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Sorry for the lack of detail.
The truck is the German Opel Blitz 6700A Fuel Truck, which is listed as having a 10000L freight capacity. They were listed in the Logistics:Freight pull-down menu and, once selected, the only loadable freight listed was nearby artillery. The airbase fuel supply did not show up in the list, even thought the trucks were parked right at the airbase.
However, when I selected a Ju-52 at the same airbase, then the airbase fuel supply did show up in the list of available supply sources.
The truck is the German Opel Blitz 6700A Fuel Truck, which is listed as having a 10000L freight capacity. They were listed in the Logistics:Freight pull-down menu and, once selected, the only loadable freight listed was nearby artillery. The airbase fuel supply did not show up in the list, even thought the trucks were parked right at the airbase.
However, when I selected a Ju-52 at the same airbase, then the airbase fuel supply did show up in the list of available supply sources.
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
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- Location: Perth, Western Australia
OK, thanks Bulau. What I need to know now to hone in on the possible bug is the version of MP that you are using. I have tried a test Ostfriesland campaign with the current release of the MP, and truck freight works fine at Enschede Airbase. However I have found a potential road network problem near Enschede (which wouldn't affect freight operations).
Cheers,
4Shades
Cheers,
4Shades
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
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BS8th_Bulau
- Posts: 38
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The Mission Planner shows v4.360 on login page.
When we started the campaign, the Control Radius was set to 0.5km, but I don't think that has any bearing on the fuel freight issue, since the Logistics:Freight pulldown mentioned fuel supplies within a 3km radius. By the way, the same freight loading issue also occured at Groningen...same trucks, same relative location at the airfield.
The road network problem you mention may explain why the trucks from Enschede did not go where they should have, and that may also apply to the trucks sent from Groningen, as they appear to have run out of fuel well under their 205km range. Jaw has the actual coop mission which we ran, so it should be possible for you to view that and see the actual route the trucks took. I could get him to send that to you as a neutral third party. (He is the Allied Commander, I am the Axis Commander) and I can send you my original Blue template before it was merged with the Red template to show initial locations of these objects.
One more possibly salient point, is that the trucks were classed as Rookie skill level, and that may have been a factor.
I haven't yet ruled out a total screw up on my part, as I am also classed as Rookie skill level as far as SEOW is concerned!
When we started the campaign, the Control Radius was set to 0.5km, but I don't think that has any bearing on the fuel freight issue, since the Logistics:Freight pulldown mentioned fuel supplies within a 3km radius. By the way, the same freight loading issue also occured at Groningen...same trucks, same relative location at the airfield.
The road network problem you mention may explain why the trucks from Enschede did not go where they should have, and that may also apply to the trucks sent from Groningen, as they appear to have run out of fuel well under their 205km range. Jaw has the actual coop mission which we ran, so it should be possible for you to view that and see the actual route the trucks took. I could get him to send that to you as a neutral third party. (He is the Allied Commander, I am the Axis Commander) and I can send you my original Blue template before it was merged with the Red template to show initial locations of these objects.
One more possibly salient point, is that the trucks were classed as Rookie skill level, and that may have been a factor.
I haven't yet ruled out a total screw up on my part, as I am also classed as Rookie skill level as far as SEOW is concerned!
Last edited by BS8th_Bulau on Mon 07 Jan 2008 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BS8th_Bulau
- Posts: 38
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This map doesn't seem to have any of the big cylindrical fuel tanks anywhere on it, at least not on the west half. Well, there are fuel storage tanks of the IL-2 variety, but none have been captured or coded for use in the SEOW Mission Planner template.IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:The big cylindrical fuel tanks, airbases, resupply points, supply drops: all these can be used by freight units to gather supplies as freight.What constitutes a fuel dump that the trucks can freight up from?
We have only the airbases, resupply points, and supply drops.
Hmmm, just thought of something you maybe should know...we divided the map between Red and Blue before knowing about Resupply Points, and put Axis on the west side and Allied on the east side. Then discovered the resupply points, but saw they were on opposite ends of the map, so Jaw edited the database table, swapping the "g" and "r", and got them switched around the way we needed.
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IV/JG7_4Shades
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon 08 Jan 2007 11:10 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hi Bulau,
MP v4.360 is well and truly out of date, so it is likely that some relevant bugs do exist in the supply/freight handling, and in fuel consumption rates.
I note that a control radius of 0.5 km does seem unusually small: a setting of 1.5-2.0 km is often a good choice, but this shouldn't affect truck freight/supply at airbases.
Cheers,
4Shades
MP v4.360 is well and truly out of date, so it is likely that some relevant bugs do exist in the supply/freight handling, and in fuel consumption rates.
I note that a control radius of 0.5 km does seem unusually small: a setting of 1.5-2.0 km is often a good choice, but this shouldn't affect truck freight/supply at airbases.
Cheers,
4Shades
IV/JG7_4Shades
SEOW Developer
SEOW Developer
Scrubbing Waypoints
4Shades,
Could you explain to me how to scub all the template waypoints? I would love to have all my armor platoons in a nonmoving state at the begining of my campaign.
Thanks
Eric
Could you explain to me how to scub all the template waypoints? I would love to have all my armor platoons in a nonmoving state at the begining of my campaign.
Thanks
Eric
IV/JG7_4Shades wrote:Hi Bulau,
These are all reasonable questions as you try to familiarise yourself with SEOW. Basically, for everything except aircraft, you just place moving or stationary objects on the map where you want them. At template initialization time, SEOW will convert these into platoons and flotillas automatically. If they are moving in your template, then they will start the campaign "In Progress" moving along the waypoint path you give them. The campaign admin can choose to scrub all template waypoints if he/she so desires.
4Shades