Operation Herkules extension

LW/JG10_Luny · Post by **LW/JG10_Luny** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:50 pm

Agree

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:14 pm

Thanks to Warg for the links, the dates arent for current Malta mission but give a good idea of possible configuration.

Armée de l'Air and Aéronautique Navale
Order of Battle, North Africa
http://france1940.free.fr/vichy/ada_afn.html

Commandement Supérieur des Troupes de Tunisie (CSTT)
Order of Battle

http://france1940.free.fr/oob/cstt.html

Vichy French Forces in North Africa
http://weaponsandwarfare.com/?p=4399

II/JG77Hawk_5 · Post by **II/JG77Hawk_5** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:01 am

For a Dewoitine 520 how about the MC202 VII 42. It relatively close to the 520 look and has the manouverability.

For the Potez 631 there isn't anything I can see that is close. Maybe the Pe2 or maybe the Tu2? Sounds like the Potez was a bit of a pig and underpowered.

Lioré et Olivier 451 -- Ki21?

Bréguet 521 -MBR's are already used. Are the Cant 506's in sector if not they would be a good addition in some way.

In any case have a good look and we'll get a few aircraft sorted. The army units can be added in the Army units table.

If Axis can get a basic ORBAT for Vichy together we can get to work putting them into a few temporary supply points so they can be placed on the map as desired around Tunisia. Maybe use japanese troops?

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:32 pm

That MC202 is close enough, cant find anything on MS406's & Hawk fighters over in Tunisia. I know 406's were in Syria.

Some other campaigns have used the early series Pe-2 for the Potez 631 & it has similarities.

Lioré et Olivier 451 - "the emphasis was placed on high-speed high-altitude cruise" .What do you think of the Tu-2 for that. It has twin rudders & top & bottom defensive gun positions. The loadouts would need to be adjusted as the Tu can carry some large ordinance.

Bréguet 521 - Its more the size of the PBY than MBR dont you think ? & we are currently using MBR as the Cant Z320 but I think it 's meant to be CANT Z.501 Gabbiano .
Adding Cant 506 would be a nice addition.

"If Axis can get a basic ORBAT for Vichy together" - Looking into it & I'll ask Warg & 4Shades for some more input on this.

LW/JG10_subg · Post by **LW/JG10_subg** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:51 am

Badger used the Pe2 in Gelb campaign and it was a fair bit too fast and well armed - It looked similar however. I know we won't get the twin tail but are there any Japanese bombers that are slower and less well armed. If not the Pe2 will have to do I guess

II/JG77Hawk_5 · Post by **II/JG77Hawk_5** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:07 am

On the Bréguet 521 vs Cant 506 I was thinking more along the lines of just using them as they are and not representing the Bréguet 521 as we really don't have anything else similar in single hull except the PBY and that just doesn't seem right to me. But I ould go with that if you want.

We could just pretent the French had some Cant 506s' on loan?

I didn't want to presume to come up with troop numbers and makeup being the enemy and all that. Just throwing my 2cents worth around.

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:51 am

II/JG77Hawk_5 wrote:
We could just pretend the French had some Cant 506s' on loan?

I'm happy with that idea Pete.

Back at work for the week so I wont find much time to look further into the ground units till my break.

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:18 am

LW/JG10_subg wrote:Badger used the Pe2 in Gelb campaign and it was a fair bit too fast and well armed - It looked similar however. I know we won't get the twin tail but are there any Japanese bombers that are slower and less well armed. If not the Pe2 will have to do I guess

Seems all planes that look similar in the sim are much faster than the Potez.
I think the earliest Bf110 (C1) is too well gunned & fast to represent the Potez. Possibly the Tu2 which appears to be about 60mph faster than the 631 could be used, it has 2 forward firing guns & will make a nice aerial coffin for the Vichy forces.
If so then we need something for the LeO 451.

Or just use the same for both , one rep the Potez only with default loadout.

II/JG77Hawk_5 · Post by **II/JG77Hawk_5** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:17 am

If using the Tu 2 we could make adjustments to the Object Specifications table so that it will be planning limited to the slower speed more inline with the 631. Its AI only so a human can't jump in and get busy with it. Fixing the loadouts is easy enough.

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:12 pm

II/JG77Hawk_5 wrote: Its AI only so a human can't jump in and get busy with it. Fixing the loadouts is easy enough.

Hmm, so what am I flying in when testing it in fmb. Or do you mean we should only make it AI to keep to the adjusted speeds?

Either way if its an easy fix then I'm happy with that.

II/JG77Hawk_5 · Post by **II/JG77Hawk_5** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:01 pm

Oh it can be flown!
I only looked in Object Specs table and it said AI control so I assumed it wasn't flyable.

The tweak would only affect AI flights of course. Humans could push it to its limits of course.

I'm happy with that too.

WTE_Ikey · Post by **WTE_Ikey** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:03 am

2100 hr Axis planning complete.