Malta Engineers & Docks

[102nd-YU-Mornar]

Thor and Jimmi, my dear friends, seems you got me completely wrong. I am now for about 5 years in SEOW story, and I am very awared about Il2 and SEOW imperfections, and I used on them loooong ago.
In this particular question - sorry for my expresion, but I don't give a damn about engineers, or HQ or supply or any other units in buildings, I've seen that many many times and I know every possible way how to deal with this if there is a need. I'm speaking about something else, for me much more important then this.
But anyway, I'll stop now since I don't want to cose any hostility to any of you guys (since my words and my point werent adressed to you, anyway).
BTW I am very much agree with Devill, we MUST NOT allow any SINGLE man to put hostility and hate between our squadrons. We should solve our problems between us, we dont need any freelancer for arbitrage.

Cheers all and have fun

[=VARP=Thor]

Ok,my intentions were not to fight or something, but to give some of possible solutions.Most of you guys are real seow veterans, i am not....but i test a lot and 80% of my seow/fmb understandings comes from testings.
When you guys take a look at the thing,everyone here have right to some level.
I am only against the thing where we think about each other that we are doing this on purpose.

Cheers

[Cipson]

My opinion is that it is highly unhistoric and unfair that those engineers can`t be killed, since historicaly they accually could be killed.

Otherwise, let's assume you kill both engineer columns on Malta. That's an instant death scenario for the allies in NW since they can't be replaced. I do not believe engineers were imagined in the design process as an instant death condition in this campaign.

I fully agree with this two sentences, the application of which produces contrary effects.

The solution, in fact, is to avoid to link reconstruction of Destroyed Assets to the presence (or not) of a couple of Jeeps, but to apply a reasonable Reconstruction Time to all Critical Target as Docks - Factories - Radar Stations - AA Batteries, based on a realistic and historic working capacity of the Garrison under Siege (in ex. Starving Garrison = low capacity and so on).

On the other side, I point out on the fact that using any Tricks, depending not from ability of Planners or Pilots, but on the limitation of old IL-2 engine or Software bug or System Bug, has to be condemned definitively and any trying to get advantages in game with a similar circumventions of rules, also if allowed from the system, due to its limitation, has to be considered definitively Unfair.

I'm definitively tired of discussing for the hundredth time these BANAL tricks, made ​​by children of 50 years old, who do not seem to understand that we all are here, not to win a stupid game, but to relive, all together as good friends, a dramatic moment in the history of mankind

[StG77_CountZero]

Thor and Jimmi, my dear friends, seems you got me completely wrong. I am now for about 5 years in SEOW story, and I am very awared about Il2 and SEOW imperfections, and I used on them loooong ago.
In this particular question - sorry for my expresion, but I don't give a damn about engineers, or HQ or supply or any other units in buildings, I've seen that many many times and I know every possible way how to deal with this if there is a need. I'm speaking about something else, for me much more important then this.
But anyway, I'll stop now since I don't want to cose any hostility to any of you guys (since my words and my point werent adressed to you, anyway).
BTW I am very much agree with Devill, we MUST NOT allow any SINGLE man to put hostility and hate between our squadrons. We should solve our problems between us, we dont need any freelancer for arbitrage.

Cheers all and have fun

Now im going off topic but i had to replay as i dont see it like that.

Mornar if i undurstod you corectly your blaiming admin of campaign for problems we saw in this campaign or we had, and resolve most of them with help of admin. I dont think we could resolve most of them without admin and i dont see how he is coas of hostilitys.

The way i see blame is on us, most of thouse problems would be avoided if we all were more active in pre-campaign briefings and dissision on TS3 about making rules, airplane types balance, night missions problems, ships limitations and so on , most of them were agread betwen participants of campaign not by just one man on begining of campaign. (all could be predicted and avoided like it was avoided in some cases during campaign).

And as i understand, as i joined this campaign from mission no4, admin even send emails informing us about thouse stuff, so there was enough time to read all and test it before start, but we didnt pay big attention on them mostly as its seams from all this missunderstandings.

[22GCT_Hollywood]

Jimmi,

Your bombers can kill many more docks per mission than can be repaired. The engineers can be killed even in cities. Yes, it is harder but it is not impossible and I suggest you guys invest some free time and check in IL2 FMB how these things actually work.

I honestly think your requests to Classic were totally unreasonable. You want him to put engineers in the open, on an island of 10 by 10 km? That's ONE square on the map mate.

Come on, just try to do the best job you can with what you have already, and try to have fun doing it. If something seems impossible to do, well then try to find another way of achieving your objective, because maybe the impossible SHOULD be impossible and you SHOULD use different tactics.

No army is going to be in the open during an air raid. And we all well know that on Malta they had caves and shelters and whatnot.

You can quite easily sink ships. You can hit static docks. Is killing engineers really the only way the axis can accomplish their goals?
Seriously?

I found your post very offensive.
I have found your way to write and represent your ideas rude and disrespectful when compared to how calm and quiet with Jimmi which has exposed the problem. Italian squads and all the pilots of the axis are doing everything possible to play the campaign in the most professional way possible and with maximum commitment, in accordance with the rules and work of Petr. So I find your "provocative suggest" out of place.

Evidently you did not understand the meaning of the post Jimmy, obviously you do not know Italian squads, obviously you do not know the seriousness and commitment that we all put into this simulator.

[102nd-YU-devill]

Hollywood,

What is obvious is that you guys have a vision of how your mission in SEOW is supposed to be and this vision is completely incompatible with what the other side thinks. I do my best to put myself in both sides' point of view, and certainly I am wrong all the time, but from the issues that are bothering the italian flyers, I can deduce that they did not make the same effort at all. They are talking about what bothers them all the time, completely ignoring the difficulties the other side is facing.

So, at least I make an effort, and if you call me offensive, rude, disrespectful... well then, it just shows we don't have much to discuss. I am certainly not going to waste my time trying to explain something to you guys for a millionth time.

Have a good professional SEOW and bye-bye!

[Classic EAF19]

I really had no intention of joining this thread because the campaign is close to the end of the phase and creating or changing rules at this late stage is pointless and will create more issues than it solves.

However Cipson your comments oblige me to respond.

We played 8 missions with no concern over the engineers or any attempt to destroy them, but I predicted that you wanted to attack them so I moved them from open fields to the urban areas this is no trick and does not make them impossible to destroy. Placing them under factory plates would completely prevent you from destroying them and would of course be a very wicked and unfair trick to play which is why I avoided placing them anywhere near a factory plate but at the same time I placed them in heavily populated areas to make it difficult for you. I must confess I did not realise that you cannot destroy the forts, I assumed there were like any other building so I will try to find a better place for them but the options are limited.

I must add that I dont believe the admin had any intention for the axis side to target the engineers otherwise I am sure there would of been more present and the rules would be expanded to cover partially damaged engineers. As the rules stand there is no reference to the strength of the engineer, only that it must survive the mission. But as I said changing the rules now will create more problems than it solves because at this stage a rule change around the engineers will likely be very biased.

You talk about game and system limitations and always point an accusing finger at these things that you deem to be tricks whilst at the same time you completely ignore such fundamentals as the bullet proof Sm.79 or the bomber pilots who have no regard for their virtual life, their crews or their machine when did you ever see a flight of bombers break up and run because they were intercepted? What about friendly fire on ships, what about bombers making kamikaze attacks, what about exploiting the damage model of the Cant.Z506 to fly at 10mtrs height directly across the middle of Malta? what about Stukas and other fighters strafing the airfields on Malta? until we have all of such things removed from the game there is little point in objecting to these things you refer to as tricks. What about your submerged submarines? Submarines I have always believed to be impossible to destroy as no rocket, bomb or other enemy ship or submarine is capable of destroying them. These submarines cause havoc for surface vessels which shoot each other when trying to shoot at the periscope. We figured out how to damage them and bring them to the surface and very recently we also figured out how to destroy a submerged submarine. Did we ask you to surface these magic submarines that are virtually impossible to destroy? of course not as that is not the nature of the game, we accepted the game and submerged submarines for what they are try to overcome the problem.

[IV/JG7_4Shades]

This topic is going nowhere, and is reflecting poorly on a campaign that has given great enjoyment to the silent majority.

Locked.