G'day,
Before starting to lay down objects in my designated area of the template using the full mission builder, I'd like to clear up some queries that come to mind when assessing the order of battle. These are:
1. I note on the map, that many of the artillery, tank and vehicular types do not show winter skins. Some, as stationery objects, have a winter skin, but not when moving. Will this be rectified for the SEOW campaign?
2. What's is the rationale behind using the Japanese HaGo SPG (in all its lime green glory) in this campaign? Yes I know we don't have the Hummel, but why not use the SdKw124 Wespe as a more appropriate substitute? Whilst not with a 150mm gun, this vehicle had a 105mm and was fairly prevalent on the Eastern front. Was often used alongside the Hummel. Hitler ordered all production of PzKw II hulls switched to Wespe manufacture (produced from Feb 43 to mid 1944) and to replace existing stopgaps like the Marder?
3. Which specific versions of the PzKw III and PzKw IV should be used? Yes I have my own ideas, but would like clarification from the campaign designer first. I would personally go with the PzKw IVJ and the PzKw IIIN. Both are equipped with schuerzen plates, which was being retrofitted from Apr 43. The PzKw IVJ has the same gun as the PzKw IVG & H which were the versions in use at the time, but which are not in the game. Virtually all PzKw IVF2's would been destroyed or modified to Ausf G or H standard by this stage of the war. If you need to further adjust, reduce the PzKw IVJ range by 30 kilometres, but increase turret traverse speed to arrive at a PzKw IVH. The PzKw III is a little more problematic. Very few PzKw III's survived into late 43 and 44 as gun tanks. Any of these would be PzKw IIIL's. I'd say that the later PzKw IIIN was more common and a better choice. It also has schuerzen plates that complement the PzKw IV's that I've favoured. However, it is not a gun tank and reverts to an infantry support role that was usually reserved to the early versions of the PzKw IV. Often with Tiger companies and in the Panzer battalions included with the Panzer Grenadier divisions.
4. How do field kitchens fit within the scheme of things? If they do not do anything, or add value, can I use them as target decoys?
5. Which infanty type would you like to use? Do I go with the Panzer Grenadiers or do I stick to the basic Axis Infantry? Whilst I can put them down as infantry, I'd much prefer them as entrenched infantry. Am assuming that the platoon of four includes the panzerschreck team. Also, please check the platoon size of infantry in the table and recount the total platoons.
6. Why use the PzKw I as a scout vehicles in a 1943 campaign? The one's we have in the game are not the Bef version of this tank. I'd like to replace this relic (which comes complete with Polish 1939 or Spanish Civil War campaign markings) with the PzKw IIF. The PzKw I was withdrawn from the Eastern front before the end of 41, whilst a few PzKw IIF might still have been on hand for the scouting role. Mind you, a PzKw I, with it's "egg shell" thin armour would be an appropriate (suicide) vehicle for our official Axis observer to patrol the lines of the front in!
7. Am a little curious about the inclusion of the 37mm Pak 35 in the anti-tank guns. Most were replaced by the 50mm Pak 38 in frontline units by the end of 42. And here, we have them grouped with the 75mm PaK 40 which was a successor of the 50mm anti-tank gun.
8. Confirmation that the Delmag D7 and D7 flak are a variation of the SdKfz 10 halftrack series? A little suprised not see SPW 251 Hanamog's here, but am guessing that they're with the Panzer Grenadier division.
9. I note that the German horse and cart combo comes with an addition of a towed gun. Can we ignore the last part and just use any of the three types?
10. Do the Nachschub Komp columns start carrying a full fuel supply load in their transport capacity? If no, then can we put them somewhere else where they can load up with supply?
I won't go into the details of the other vehicles and have just made a division along the parameters given. I do note the absence of radio and medical trucks, so am assuming that the rules pertaining to these might not apply in this campaign.
Finally, am hopeful that someone with Navicat and the database will check the naming conventions of units after initialisation. This is an important step before the final product is release to the users. Will await your response before commencement.
Regards,
Warg
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:17 pm Reply with quote
II/JG54_Emil
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 257
I´m not sure if 4Shades is checking this forum, it´s probaly safer to post this in public again.
About question 2.:
as I explained in Petrs Wespe thread that it was initially planned to have the Wespe in the campaign and we needed a proxi for the Hummel, which would be the HoRo.
Now that we don´t have the Wespe we can use the Wespe as Hummel.
I have made the changes in the rockets.ini and technics.ini(armor/speed/calibre/gunpitch/range/rof) and will send the update to 4Shades.
about question 4.:
Field kitchens contain supply and keep up the troops moral.
about question 7.:
In the Divisional Oraganization Order Aufstellung, Gliederung und Ausstattung der Infanterie-Divisionen
16. – 35. Welle, there aren´t, as you say, anymore Pak36 since Autumn 1943.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Zus ... 16-35W.htm
There was made use of the Soviet Pak called 7.62cm Pak36(russisch) in German units. Maybe that´s the one?
Many thanks for your reply Emil. Am re-posting this in the public forum as requested.
In regard to your response to the Wespe (Question 2), am a little unsure as to what you mean. Is the Wespe included or not? My query was not referring to the Wespe as an off map artillery barrage module, but to it's availability in IL2 FMB under the "armour" and the "stationary object" sections. I just think it's a much more appropriate thing to put on an Eastern front winter map than a Japanese vehicle in tropical markings. In direct tank combat, being hit by a 105mm shell compared to a 150mm shell would probably be equally devastating to a target. Furthermore, when looking at a Hummel, you will note that the upper superstructure housing the gun and crew is set further back on the vehicle. You will also appreciate the elevation that it allows for the gun. Essentially, it functions and looks similar to a Wespe, only bigger, as it's using a hybrid of the PzKw III & IV chasis. Also note that the original intention was to mount a 105mm gun on the Hummel, but since this could be done with the Wespe using a PzKw II hull, the Germans opted for a larger 150mm weapon. Now look at the HoRo. The upper superstructure is well forward and the gun shield offer much less elevation for indirect fire. Now if we are to discuss the off map barrages available, (which I gather is where the "rockets.ini" thing comes in), then just use a 105mm barrage for the Wespe and a 150mm barrage for the Hummel. Bottom line is, loose the HoRo, it'll look cheesy in the template and serves no real purpose that can't be covered by the Wespe.
The field kitchens (Question 4). Thanks for the information. Will the kitchens start fully supplied and be able to be resupplied during the campaign? Otherwise, is it just a "positive morale" modifier to have around the troops, akin to the mobile brothels (AKA. f### trucks) seen in other templates.
Lets chat about anti-tank guns (Question 7). In Wehrmacht terms, PaK 35 and PaK36 can refer to the 37mm anti-tank gun, otherwise known as the "army's door knocker" Historical sources quote both PaK numbers, but regardless of this, the obsolete 37mm gun soldiered on into 1942 with special armour piercing tungsten shells, but was replaced by the 50mm PaK 38 in front line units well before the end of that year. I think it important that you made mention of the Soviet 76.2mm gun. Large numbers of these guns were captured during the early stages of Barbarossa. A number, about 1300, were adapted to use German 75mm ammunition. It was known as the "PaK 36r". I think these guns came into use from about February, 1942, which with German ammunition, would have been more effective than the original Soviet product. Whist not in the IL2 game, it is the equivalent to the 75mm PaK 40. All this fits well and will use the 75mm PaK 40 for it from the schedule.
Will await response on the other questions.
Some other queries.
11. Thick forests and trees. I'm fairly sure that ground fire ignores trees. That is, a tree trunk doesn't present itself as an obstacle and tanks will happily shoot at each other across an area packed with trees. Given that in the game, forests do not present as great an obstacle as in real life, will there be any rules in regard to placement of equipment and movement through thick forests?
12. Whilst there are no reinforcements or industrials, will there be on map re-supply points fairly close to the sector of operations?
13. Are aerial missions limited to a 30 minute duration? Maybe the typical mission combat on the Eastern front only lasted this long, but it does seem rather short. If the scenario is to cover only the combat phase of aerial operations, then wouldn't it be more realistic and prudent to have aerial starts and finishes? That is, forgo taking off and landing with aircraft. I stand corrected if I've heard wrong about this.
14. Can we add "objects" when make our sections of the template? I have my own reasons for this.
15. Is there a universal guideline or procedure written for the punters building their sections of the overall template. For instance, I might want to put in a platoon of three Panther tanks. One approach, is to select a group of "3 x Panther" from "Armour" in the FMB. Another is to put down a single Panther tank from the "Stationary Armour" in the FMB and use Navicat to give it "x 3" multiplier in the relevant table. Hopefully, something is already there, but am concerned that differing approaches to template building could cause problems.
That's all for now, am off to work. Thanks for your response.
Regards,
Warg
